Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print
LS400 vs 650 (Read 719 times)
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
LS400 vs 650
04/17/13 at 17:07:03
 
My savage was born a 1987  Suzuki Savage LS400.It was degined for the asian market due to tighter cc restrctions.So a simple design changed was needed.Some of these made there way down our way.{NZ}Aparently not sold new but personally imported.
I swapped the engine with a 1988 LS650 with no trouble at all.
The 400 just layed around the garage floor until recently. I have always wondered what separated the 400 from the 650. So I decided to open it up to see what made it tick. I had been told that the only difference was the BORE ans STROKE. After removing the head I have measured the piston and Bore 87 ,and in the pic I have marked 87,94.
The conrod has the markings 25B on it which I think is different to the 650 rod.
So I wonder if I bore out to a 94mm with a shorter stroke how would it compare to a 94mm with a stock conrod. Its hard to articulate what i'm trying to say. Embarrassed  More or less HP?

This link is not very organised i'm Afraid.
http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/PaulMarshall1977/library/?sort=2&page=1
Back to top
« Last Edit: 04/17/13 at 18:21:39 by paulmarshall »  

87.jpg
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #1 - 04/17/13 at 17:09:04
 
Conrod with 25B stamped onto it.
Back to top
 

85.jpg
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #2 - 04/17/13 at 17:25:37
 
Something else I found interesting was that the 1987 LS400 had a 5 speed and the 1988 LS650 which is the California model had a 4 speed.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
12Bravo
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 628
Mid-Missouri
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #3 - 04/17/13 at 18:51:36
 
That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   Wink
Back to top
 
 

No Child Should Live In Fear!!!
'Keepers of the children'
http://www.bacaworld.org

  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #4 - 04/17/13 at 19:31:28
 
That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   Wink
[ Funny you should say that i have had very similar thoughts]

No but seriously I intend to put this back together with at least 94mm Bore, and maybe a hotter cam.Upgrade the starter gear.Port and polish.
I enjoyed the 5 speed but the 400 lost it in top especially when stock.
I have the advantage of time due to this is a spare. Cheesy
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 04/17/13 at 21:34:53 by paulmarshall »  
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #5 - 04/17/13 at 20:11:50
 
paulmarshall wrote on 04/17/13 at 19:31:28:
That 400 motor would make one heck of a power plant for a go cart especially with the 5 speed tranny   Wink
[ Funny you should say that i have had very similar thoughts]

No but seriously I intend to put this back together with at least 94mm Bore, and maybe a hotter cam.Upgrade the starter gear.
I enjoyed the 5 speed but the 400 lost it in top especially when stock. And a hard 68000 km by previous owner. Sad
I have the advantage of time due to this is a spare. Cheesy

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
12Bravo
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 628
Mid-Missouri
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #6 - 04/17/13 at 20:19:16
 
It will be interesting what kind of performance you can get out of it with all the work you plan on doing. Will the jug have enough material left after boring it out to fit the 650 piston?
Back to top
 
 

No Child Should Live In Fear!!!
'Keepers of the children'
http://www.bacaworld.org

  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #7 - 04/17/13 at 20:22:27
 
It will be interesting what kind of performance you can get out of it with all the work you plan on doing. Will the jug have enough material left after boring it out to fit the 650 piston?

[Its a 650 with a sleeve put in so yes it would be 94mm Bore same as stock 650.Look closely the metal sleeve is a darker colour.]
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #8 - 04/17/13 at 21:29:04
 
After some cleaning the sleeve vanished into a larger single inner sleeve that can be machined.  Embarrassed
Back to top
 

008_005.jpg
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #9 - 04/17/13 at 21:31:19
 
The dark ring was a result of the head which 94mm.
Back to top
 

009_005.jpg
  IP Logged
paulmarshall
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 1268
Carterton,New Zealand
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #10 - 04/17/13 at 21:34:05
 
Looking at this pic the metal changes at 106mm. I would to think 96mm would be easy. Considering there are pistons available for it.

Back to top
 

011_004.jpg
  IP Logged
Paladin.
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

Hamster

Posts: 4929
Sunny Southern California
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #11 - 04/18/13 at 04:09:03
 

The 650 is 94mm x 94mm = 652cc
The 400 is 87mm x 67mm = 398cc

Bore the 400 would make it:

94mm x 67mm = 465cc
96mm x 67mm = 485cc

400 top and a 650's crank would be
87mm x 94mm = 559cc
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 17738
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #12 - 04/18/13 at 04:47:18
 
Random Thoughts:

The connecting rod may be longer than the 650....so that the piston will come up the full height with the shorter stroke.  Check and see if the poston pin is the same size as the 650.

Longer stroke engines tend to have more torque than shorter stroke engines.....shorter stroke engines have a better ability to rev higher as the piston speeds are lower.  (Tractors and working engines often have longer strokes than bores to make torque.....racing engines often have larger bore than strokes tp get high rpm's and higher HP).   Putting on the bigger bore 650 piston will give you more power than the 400 had orginally - but not the 650 engines torque.

If you do put a larger piston in.....you will get an engine that runs better than a 400 - but not as strong as the 650.

You will have invested time and money into a fun project......but you would get more bang for your buck on a 650 project.

For those of us that can't get a 400......it would be cool just to have a stock one.
Back to top
 
 

Someday I will be old......But not today!

  IP Logged
wambr
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 610
Russia, Samara
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #13 - 04/18/13 at 11:13:23
 
just remake 400 дикакря in 650 not work...about the sizes пошня of the cylinder and the piston stroke you have already written...the 400 savage piston pin smaller-21мм. and wasted the upper head of connecting rod under the larger size will probably be not very good идеей. and "friendship" piston valves probably all the same will not happen . the form of the pistons quite different. and about transmission-all true. the Savages, too, since '95 year were 5 step transmissions.
and Dave rights..an interesting engine: it is not 400 but still not 650 Savage
Back to top
 
 

Yeah, it's not bigtwin, but it is the best half of it
  IP Logged
wambr
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 610
Russia, Samara
Gender: male
Re: LS400 vs 650
Reply #14 - 04/18/13 at 11:18:56
 
and the cylinder head, and everything else(other than the cylinder, the piston and crankshaft)-100%identical.
Back to top
 
 

Yeah, it's not bigtwin, but it is the best half of it
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
03/29/24 at 07:25:54



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › LS400 vs 650


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.