SuzukiSavage.com - trouble running, maybe the carburetor?

verslagen1

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #75 - 04/28/13 at 08:38:17

Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike.

If you take the carb off the bike, I found it will sit in a coffee can just right. So find a can that all four ears of the bowl sit well w/out tipping.

take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb.
now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat.

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maxtowers

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #76 - 04/28/13 at 09:20:37

87 savage wrote on 04/28/13 at 08:20:15:

maxtowers wrote on 04/28/13 at 06:07:27:

After the mod to the float, the bike don't start, and there is gas in the air intake that leaks down from the two drain tubes at the base of the air filter box...
Well, outside it's raining...

Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. Sad

The needle assembly it's brand new, was in the kit that i got from Ebay with the new bowl gasket to replace the old one that was broken... anyway i take the carb off and see if there's anything wrong with my re-assembly... i must have done something wrong when i have put back toghether all the part...

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #77 - 04/28/13 at 09:24:57

verslagen1 wrote on 04/28/13 at 08:38:17:

Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike.

If you take the carb off the bike, I found it will sit in a coffee can just right. So find a can that all four ears of the bowl sit well w/out tipping.

take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb.
now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat.

i will sure try this one since i have to take the carb back off the bike...

Again, thanks guys for your patience and your help, i really appreciate

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WD Serious Thumper 2005 No Login Offline Professional "scooter trash". Posts: 5207 Rosemark TN Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #78 - 04/28/13 at 09:25:13 Fill a mixing bowl with water. Take out your carb float. See if it actually floats or if it sinks. With the damage on that one lobe, it could very well have a micro hole and has filled the one side with fuel. Result? Overflow, because the float no longer seats the needle.
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87 savage

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #79 - 04/28/13 at 09:35:06

verslagen1 wrote on 04/28/13 at 08:38:17:

Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike.

take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb.
now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat.

Verslagen, this is good stuff! So I take it from your tip to Max that when the float is set correctly, the fuel level in the upright carb should be just below the top of the bowl? Huh

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #80 - 04/28/13 at 09:45:06 87 savage wrote on 04/28/13 at 09:35:06: Verslagen, this is good stuff! So I take it from your tip to Max that when the float is set correctly, the fuel level in the upright carb should be just below the top of the bowl? again, yes.
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87 savage Full Member Offline Gone riding! Posts: 249 Maine Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #81 - 04/28/13 at 13:01:36 verslagen1 wrote on 04/28/13 at 09:45:06: again, yes. That's one of the things I love about this forum' I'm always learning
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maxtowers

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #82 - 04/28/13 at 13:12:53

WD wrote:
"Fill a mixing bowl with water. Take out your carb float. See if it actually floats or if it sinks. With the damage on that one lobe, it could very well have a micro hole and has filled the one side with fuel.

Result? Overflow, because the float no longer seats the needle."

I did this test as soon as i took off the carb from the bike the first time...
it was floating and there was no bubbles after sunk it in the bowl for a few minutes...

verslagen1 wrote:
"Got an idea, and you can do this easier with the carb off the bike.

If you take the carb off the bike, I found it will sit in a coffee can just right. So find a can that all four ears of the bowl sit well w/out tipping.

take the gasket off the bowl and replace the bowl back on the carb.
now fill the carb with gas till it stops. If it's overflowing the bowl, the floats too high, adjust and repeat."

Ok, i did it, and i checked all what i've done on the carb since the problem came out...
So i checked the housing of the needle valve that i changed with one that was included in a kit that i purchased for the bowl gasket, and it is of the right diameter... so i switched to the older but still good needle and checked the height of the floats, straightened the little tang that i have bended before and did some tests... after a few try, seems that i find the right spot, so i just need some sunshine and i can try the bike properly. i made a quick run around my little town tonight and all seemed fine, had to adjust the idle, and the riding has been promising.
I will definitely keep you posted in the next few days.

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87 savage

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #83 - 04/28/13 at 13:35:49

maxtowers wrote on 04/28/13 at 13:12:53:

WD wrote:

So i checked the housing of the needle valve that i changed with one that was included in a kit that i purchased for the bowl gasket, and it is of the right diameter... so i switched to the older but still good needle and checked the height of the floats, straightened the little tang that i have bended before and did some tests... after a few try, seems that i find the right spot, so i just need some sunshine and i can try the bike properly. i made a quick run around my little town tonight and all seemed fine, had to adjust the idle, and the riding has been promising.
I will definitely keep you posted in the next few days.

Nice! Glad to hear it. Maybe your troubles are over?

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #84 - 04/28/13 at 13:40:39 Great, I think I'll write this one up and into the tech section.
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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #85 - 04/28/13 at 16:27:11

87 savage wrote on 04/28/13 at 13:35:49:

maxtowers wrote on 04/28/13 at 13:12:53:

WD wrote:

So i checked the housing of the needle valve that i changed with one that was included in a kit that i purchased for the bowl gasket, and it is of the right diameter... so i switched to the older but still good needle and checked the height of the floats, straightened the little tang that i have bended before and did some tests... after a few try, seems that i find the right spot, so i just need some sunshine and i can try the bike properly. i made a quick run around my little town tonight and all seemed fine, had to adjust the idle, and the riding has been promising.
I will definitely keep you posted in the next few days.

Nice! Glad to hear it. Maybe your troubles are over?

I hope so... i would love to concentrate my efforts at the front suspension, but i want to fix the engine before... there's no point in fixing and lowering the front fork if the bike don't run, right?

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #86 - 04/29/13 at 12:47:47

87 savage wrote on 04/28/13 at 08:20:15:

maxtowers wrote on 04/28/13 at 06:07:27:

After the mod to the float, the bike don't start, and there is gas in the air intake that leaks down from the two drain tubes at the base of the air filter box...
Well, outside it's raining...

Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. Sad

Just a quick question, you mentioned gas in the crankcase; now, i have to say that in these few km that i put on the bike since last night the bike seems run way better... i just here some noises from the engine that before weren't there... So i growned some worries about what you mentioned...how do i see if there's any? i have to empty the engine oil in a pan and see if there's any gas?
And change oil and filter... good for me that i bought two of them when i got the supplies for the oil change...
Do i have to do it asap?
Thanks again for any hints and suggestions...

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verslagen1

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #87 - 04/29/13 at 13:16:52

maxtowers wrote on 04/29/13 at 12:47:47:

Just a quick question, you mentioned gas in the crankcase; now, i have to say that in these few km that i put on the bike since last night the bike seems run way better... i just here some noises from the engine that before weren't there... So i growned some worries about what you mentioned...how do i see if there's any? i have to empty the engine oil in a pan and see if there's any gas?
And change oil and filter... good for me that i bought two of them when i got the supplies for the oil change...
Do i have to do it asap?
Thanks again for any hints and suggestions...

All gas engines have some gas in the crankcase. More than 10% is an issue. Always give the oil level window a glance after a long period between runs (overnight) That's another reason on the kickstand, bottom of the window method works, all you need is a bit of light and to stoop a bit. Clear window ok, black window bad.

Some say take the cork out and give the case a wiff. Level method is more definite.

As far as the filter goes... a little gas in the oil won't hurt the filter. The only advantage changing the filter is additional gas contaminated oil is removed. So open it up, get the oil outta there, and put it back in.

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Steve H

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #88 - 04/29/13 at 13:25:04

Look at the oil level in the sight glass. If it's higher than it was when you finished changing the oil, it probably did get gas in the oil. Take the oil cap off and see if you can smell gas in the oil fill. These are two easy ways that come to mind. If so, you got gas in there. And, like you said, you could always drain it and see.

I hope you got your carb problem solved. They can be really annoying sometimes.

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #89 - 04/29/13 at 15:19:35

verslagen1 wrote on 04/29/13 at 13:16:52:

maxtowers wrote on 04/29/13 at 12:47:47:

Just a quick question, you mentioned gas in the crankcase; now, i have to say that in these few km that i put on the bike since last night the bike seems run way better... i just here some noises from the engine that before weren't there... So i growned some worries about what you mentioned...how do i see if there's any? i have to empty the engine oil in a pan and see if there's any gas?
And change oil and filter... good for me that i bought two of them when i got the supplies for the oil change...
Do i have to do it asap?
Thanks again for any hints and suggestions...

All gas engines have some gas in the crankcase. More than 10% is an issue. Always give the oil level window a glance after a long period between runs (overnight) That's another reason on the kickstand, bottom of the window method works, all you need is a bit of light and to stoop a bit. Clear window ok, black window bad.

Some say take the cork out and give the case a wiff. Level method is more definite.

As far as the filter goes... a little gas in the oil won't hurt the filter. The only advantage changing the filter is additional gas contaminated oil is removed. So open it up, get the oil outta there, and put it back in.

So, i've checked the window with the bike on the side stand and it's pretty clear... i've also smelled the oil from the filling plug as suggested from Steve H and it doesn't stink of gas, so i think i' m in the clear... but just for sake tomorrow i will drain, change the filter and fill it up again, maybe with new oil...
And just for the record, i' ve been back to the original spark plug, the NGK DPR8E-A, but from what i read from the owners manual the NGK DPR7E-A is a substitute in case quote "if standard plug's insulator is dark, replace with this plug".
Even with the DPR7E-A fouling was accumulating on the insulator and on the arch (before all this float "job")
I put back the original spark plug so i can narrow down cause and effects of the various works done to the carb.

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