SuzukiSavage.com - trouble running, maybe the carburetor?

Coaxial Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 184 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #60 - 04/26/13 at 16:02:00 Dave wrote on 04/01/13 at 09:27:13: WD wrote on 04/01/13 at 05:27:15: He's in Italy Dave. WD. I just did a seach.....Seafoam is not available outside the US. Sir, it is available in America's Hat.
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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #61 - 04/26/13 at 16:14:47

Coaxial wrote on 04/26/13 at 16:02:00:

Dave wrote on 04/01/13 at 09:27:13:

WD wrote on 04/01/13 at 05:27:15:

He's in Italy Dave.

WD. I just did a seach.....Seafoam is not available outside the US.

Sir, it is available in America's Hat.

Well thanks, but i've already restored the interior of the tank... i used an italian product made for antique cars and bikes and it seems that fuel related problems have been solved.
Thanks a lot anyway, i will remember that, you never know...

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87 savage

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #62 - 04/26/13 at 19:10:04

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.

Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. Huh

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #63 - 04/27/13 at 00:35:48

87 savage wrote on 04/26/13 at 19:10:04:

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.

Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. Huh

That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it.
Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost...

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87 savage

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #64 - 04/27/13 at 07:12:33

maxtowers wrote on 04/27/13 at 00:35:48:

87 savage wrote on 04/26/13 at 19:10:04:

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.

Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. Huh

That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it.
Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost...

Hey Max, quick note, float measurement instructions should have read:

(carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the FLOAT. ~~bowl~~. NOT FLOAT BOWL! Should be approx 27-28mm.)

My bad, sorry Roll Eyes

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His: 1987 LS650F stock except for 98 engine, Dyna muffler. Hers: 2008 S40 with factory bags, windshield and sissybar.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #65 - 04/27/13 at 08:05:02 In this case, a by-the-book measurement aint gonna do. take a clear length of tubing, connect it to the drain and run it up along the carb. and open the drain, petcock to prime, level should come up to the bowl gasket with the bike vertical.
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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #66 - 04/27/13 at 08:37:22

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.
I live along the west coast, litterally few hundred yards from the beach, and usually not climbing big mountians... so better to go back to the old spark plug and see what other thing might goin' on?
In this case i guess i'm gonna take it to a mechanic, goin' around cylinder, piston and all that stuff makes me uncomfortable doin' it by myself with no experience in doing so...
Do i have to stop running it or can i use it anyway?
Sorry for all this questions, but apache snow kinda scared me a bit...

A 7 spark plug won't harm anything. When you get down around 4 and 5, you'll start having issues.

As for a plugged up muffler, I think he confused it with a "cataclysmic perverter" (catalytic converter), which our bikes don't have (yet).

Is the black gunk "fluffy" or sticky? Fluffy is a bit rich on the fuel, sticky is way too rich or it is trying to burn oil as well as gas.

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maxtowers

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #67 - 04/27/13 at 08:41:55

87 savage wrote on 04/27/13 at 07:12:33:

maxtowers wrote on 04/27/13 at 00:35:48:

87 savage wrote on 04/26/13 at 19:10:04:

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.

Hi Max, when you say after 50 miles you have to clean the plug, is it because the plug is sooted up..black? That would mean you are way rich. If as you say your main is 130 and your pilot 47.5, you should not be rich at all, lean if anything. I've read this post twice and I don't see anything about the float level mentioned. Have you set the float level? As messed up as those floats are, if they don't float properly and keep the proper fuel level in the float bowl that could cause you to be way rich. If the float level measures right: (carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the float bowl. Should be approx 27-28mm.) If that is correct drop it a couple mm to 30-31 and see if it runs any better. I just wouldn't trust that float. Huh

That's right, the plug is sooted black... i never considered that possibility, it's a great advice, and i will check promptly... i will see how to regulate the float level on the service manual and report as soon as i have done it.
Thanks a lot for all the inputs guys, by myself i would be lost...

Hey Max, quick note, float measurement instructions should have read:

(carb off the bike, float bowl removed, carb upside down. Measure from the carb body where the bowl gasket sets, to the bottom of the FLOAT. ~~bowl~~. NOT FLOAT BOWL! Should be approx 27-28mm.)

My bad, sorry Roll Eyes

No biggie, i guessed what you meant so here's some picture of what i came up with... add 2mm to compensate the dept of the border:

and this is how it is fitted in the carb:

Now i know that this is kind of approximative, but if i flip the float?
like this:

now it measures about 40 mm... i know it's a bit too much, but is it conceivable?

"verslagen1 wrote:
In this case, a by-the-book measurement aint gonna do.
take a clear length of tubing, connect it to the drain and run it up along the carb. and open the drain, petcock to prime, level should come up to the bowl gasket with the bike vertical."

The only problem is that i have a normal bolt as a drain pug, so i don't know how to connect the tube to the bowl...

and anyway anyone knows if and how to set the float level? do i have to bend the floats?

I noticed that the bike always start without the need of the choke... is it normal?

Oh and one last particular.... when i kill the engine after a few seconds (sometimes even ten) the bike seems to cough from the exhaust... not too loud, just like a cough...

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #68 - 04/27/13 at 15:29:06

verslagen1 wrote on 04/27/13 at 08:05:02:

In this case, a by-the-book measurement aint gonna do.

take a clear length of tubing, connect it to the drain and run it up along the carb. and open the drain, petcock to prime, level should come up to the bowl gasket with the bike vertical.

I have to agree Verslagen, that float is in crazy bad shape! How would he hook up some tubing to the drain?

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87 savage

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #69 - 04/27/13 at 15:34:45

Max, I wouldn't run the float upside down. I don't think the float bowl would even fit with the float upsidedown and it would be way too low. If you can't figure a way to try what Verslagen suggested, drop the float a few mm and try running it. To adjust the float, you bend the tang on the float that the needle attaches to. Starting without the choke sounds rich with your stock jets. A little pop in the exhaust when you shut it off is fairly normal for these savages.

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maxtowers

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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #70 - 04/28/13 at 01:34:07

WD wrote on 04/27/13 at 08:37:22:

maxtowers wrote on 04/26/13 at 15:59:08:

A friend suggested that maybe could be the muffler obstructed by residue since probably it has never been cleaned... is it realistic? He suggested to run for a while without the muffler or with one less restricted and see what happens in the span of about 50 miles that is the average that i had between needing to pull the spark plug and clean it.
I live along the west coast, litterally few hundred yards from the beach, and usually not climbing big mountians... so better to go back to the old spark plug and see what other thing might goin' on?
In this case i guess i'm gonna take it to a mechanic, goin' around cylinder, piston and all that stuff makes me uncomfortable doin' it by myself with no experience in doing so...
Do i have to stop running it or can i use it anyway?
Sorry for all this questions, but apache snow kinda scared me a bit...

A 7 spark plug won't harm anything. When you get down around 4 and 5, you'll start having issues.

As for a plugged up muffler, I think he confused it with a "cataclysmic perverter" (catalytic converter), which our bikes don't have (yet).

Is the black gunk "fluffy" or sticky? Fluffy is a bit rich on the fuel, sticky is way too rich or it is trying to burn oil as well as gas.

Well the gunk it's more on the fluffy side... few strokes with a metallic brush and the spark plug it's as good as new...
About the oil, when i changed oil and filter i sticked to the quantity ordered by Suzuki, but when i check the oil level with the bike on the central wood stand (copied by Serowbot Grin

), it is a bit over the full line... not much, just a tad, but is it harming in any way?

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WD Serious Thumper 2005 No Login Offline Professional "scooter trash". Posts: 5207 Rosemark TN Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #71 - 04/28/13 at 01:41:14 It might weep a bit if you have any suspect gaskets, otherwise, don't lose any sleep over it. A touch over is basically harmless.
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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #72 - 04/28/13 at 01:44:43

87 savage wrote on 04/27/13 at 15:34:45:

Max, I wouldn't run the float upside down. I don't think the float bowl would even fit with the float upsidedown and it would be way too low. If you can't figure a way to try what Verslagen suggested, drop the float a few mm and try running it. To adjust the float, you bend the tang on the float that the needle attaches to. Starting without the choke sounds rich with your stock jets. A little pop in the exhaust when you shut it off is fairly normal for these savages.

Thanks 87 savage, i will follow your directions on how to regulate the floats... i didn't think that was just a matter of bending a tang, i thought that there was a hidden screw or something that i didn't noticed... i would love to follow Verslagen method, seems really accurate... but untill i find a way to fit a tube to the bowl i will try bending the tang on the float and see what happens.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks to all you guys, you've been great.

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maxtowers Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 101 Versilia, Italy Gender:	Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor? Reply #73 - 04/28/13 at 06:07:27 After the mod to the float, the bike don't start, and there is gas in the air intake that leaks down from the two drain tubes at the base of the air filter box... Well, outside it's raining...
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Re: trouble running, maybe the carburetor?
Reply #74 - 04/28/13 at 08:20:15

maxtowers wrote on 04/28/13 at 06:07:27:

After the mod to the float, the bike don't start, and there is gas in the air intake that leaks down from the two drain tubes at the base of the air filter box...
Well, outside it's raining...

Sounds like the needle valve is not seating to stop the flow of gas. The float bowl overfills and the gas runs into the air cleaner box. The fuel can also run into the crankcase, bad! Find a way to stop the fuel. Make sure your petcock is not on prime. Pull the gas feed line of your carb and plug it to stop fuel if necessary. When you made your adjustment to the float, what was your measurement? Perhaps the needle assembly is half the problem? Sounds like the carb will have to come back out or at the very least drain and drop the float bowl. Take a good look at the rubber part of the needle assembly and see if it has a ring worn into it. If it does you'll have to replace it before going further. Sad

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