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oil (Read 886 times)
Oldfeller--FSO
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Re: oil
Reply #30 - 03/30/13 at 20:05:46
 

When JASO came out it was paired with SL oils and the pair of specs carried good clutch function and 1,100 to 1,250 PPM of ZDDP on the bike oils being sold back at that point in time.   So, back then JASO MA was a "desirable rating" to us.

SN and MA2 (the original MA2)  came out and and ZDDP dropped to 800 to no more than 1,000 PPM.   And the rules started to get funny as they enforced MAXIMUM ZDDP levels but enforced no mininum specs at all -- so we stared seeing 800 PPM oils listed as "motorcycle oils".

And, JASO then came out with all the other MA ratings and all their other funny rules, so we simply started listing the oils with enough ZDDP and good clutch function in the Tech Section.

Greg, you can be just as confused about JASO as you want to be, nobody is going to stop you since you seem to like it.    And JASO is certainly going to keep you busy for a while since they change it up each year.

For everybody else,    http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565




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rl153
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Re: oil
Reply #31 - 04/02/13 at 17:53:56
 
If I changed my oil in october,and the bike sat till march,do i have to change my oil now again? If so why? I run Rotella T6.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: oil
Reply #32 - 04/02/13 at 18:09:13
 
Depends,, If ya had enough miles on that "new" oil to get some unburned stuff in it, it could have sat there & become a bit acidic..Or,, thats what Ive heard,, nows a good time for someone to say Yea, thats right or No,, thats just silly.,.
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Re: oil
Reply #33 - 04/02/13 at 18:51:16
 
it also depends on how and where it was stored.  you could have alot of condensation build up inside the case meaning water in your oil.  So it's a good bet to just go ahead and change it.

R.F.
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Re: oil
Reply #34 - 04/02/13 at 23:41:01
 
ahh yes the yearly oil war any north koreans here? Cheesy
AMSOIL  nuff said
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Oldfeller--FSO
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Re: oil
Reply #35 - 04/03/13 at 00:47:22
 

Condensation in the oil.  Some small amounts of water in the oil.

It happens every time you take a short trip that doesn't warm the engine up completely.   Water is a by product of combustion, you see it pouring out of truck exhausts and SUV exhausts every morning as the folks leave the neighborhood.

It is why short oil change intervals for soccer moms were invented.

But in the air cooled Savage engine a trip of 5-10 miles or more is enough to get the crankcase up to temperature, which is above the boiling point of water intentionally (around 250o)

T6 really doesn't care about a little bit of condensation water, it will hold the microdroplets in suspension like they were dirt particles until the next time you get the engine up to running temperature, then the water vapor goes out the huff tube with the blow by gases.

No, you don't need to change your oil every spring just because it is spring when you use T6.   We got people saying you should put your bike up with clean oil in it and now we gots folks saying you should change the clean oil because it got musty over the winter?

Nonsense.

Crank your bike up and go for a longish ride and you will "fix" your musty oil jest fine by the time you get back.   Theoretically, you should be able to run T6 for at least several years before the additives get depleted, although none of us actually do that, we all change it at least yearly.
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rl153
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Re: oil
Reply #36 - 04/03/13 at 11:58:35
 
Thanks OF ,sounds like good advice.
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Re: oil
Reply #37 - 04/03/13 at 12:39:44
 
Yea, good to have some input from someone who has studied the stuff..
I would ask , regarding my answer, Ive heard that unburned hydrocarbons & soot & stuff gets into the oil, thru blowby, &, over time, causes the oil to become somewhat acidic. Ive heard it several times, different places,, but, repeatedly hearing something doesnt make it true. Soooo,, is there anything to that?
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Re: oil
Reply #38 - 04/03/13 at 13:46:40
 
Normal combustion byproducts of burning gasoline in air result in carbon dioxide and water, along with assorted oxides of nitrogen (there are about five of them generically called NOx) and sulphur from impurities in gasoline. Carbon dioxide reacts with water to form carbonic acid, the stuff that makes carbonated drinks fizzy. Sulphur oxides (two of them) react with water to form sulphuric and sulphurous acids. NOx reacts with water to form nitrous and nitric acids. All these find their way into the crankcase through blowby, although most of them keep right on going out the breather. The carbonic acid goes away when the oil temperature gets high enough to evaporate the water away. Motor oils (not necessarily racing oils, since it is expected that racing oils will be changed after every race) have basic compounds added which neutralize the acids. The basic compounds are reported as TBN, Total Base Number, in analyses of oil. The TBN will drop as oil is used for longer, and more fuel is burned. Any acid not neutralized can cause corrosion of metal parts in the engine, and that is the reason for the advice to change oil before long-term storage.

Personally, I believe that if the engine was run long enough to bring it up to normal operating temperature immediately before storage, and if the oil isn't already approaching a change interval, I'd just leave the old oil in there. I certainly see no reason to change the oil at the start of the season if I had already done so when I put the machine into storage.
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Re: oil
Reply #39 - 04/03/13 at 18:03:00
 
Wow,, OOookay,, so it Can get acidic, but running it long enough to cook out the H2O solves the problem, because its the H2O that all the crud reacts with to create the acidic situation.. Way cool.. I will save $$$ over the years having that info AND Ill save worry, which to me is better than whatever savings I may see,,Thanks, Again,,

ETA

This is one of the reasons I keep comin back to this crazy place..
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Re: oil
Reply #40 - 04/03/13 at 19:22:30
 

So, run it hard right before you put it up and run it hard again on your first spring rides and remember to change your T6 once a year to be on the chickenish safe side and you can quit worrying about your oil.

Remember, that T6 oil was extensively tested to be good for 20,000 - 30,000 miles of HARD USE in a big road diesel, it isn't going to crap out on you in 3,000 - 5,000 miles of yearly use in our Savage no matter what you do to it.

And trust me, I do worse to it than you do, by a factor of 10 at least every time I go to the mountains.

Cheesy
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Re: oil
Reply #41 - 04/03/13 at 19:43:19
 
Just for fun - I used to drive a semi. It had a Detroit Diesel 12.7 liter turbocharged engine. Werner called for oil changes based neither on miles nor hours, but on fuel burned. As I recall (this was over ten years ago) the interval was something like 3200 gallons, about 20K miles. The engine held five gallons of oil, 20 quarts. Mine required a gallon to be added midway during the interval. So, 24 quarts of oil handled the soot and other contaminants from burning 3200 gallons, or each quart handled the results of burning just over 130 gallons of fuel. If the S40 gets 55 mpg (mine is a little better) and the oil is changed at 4000 miles, it will have burned about 73 gallons of gas. It holds two quarts of oil, so each quart handles the results of burning only about 37 gallons of fuel. Using that rather crude comparison, we change oil about three and half times as often as an over-the-road semi.

Ain't it fun, playing with numbers?

By the way, I have no idea what oil Werner supplied. They just gave us a couple of gallons in unmarked containers, and the engine took one gallon from "ADD" to "FULL."
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« Last Edit: 04/03/13 at 20:47:31 by Charon »  

Eschew obfuscation.

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: oil
Reply #42 - 04/04/13 at 10:39:06
 
That comparison/analysis may not seem valuable to some, but it makes sense to me.,I know some women who simply wouldnt get that,
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Re: oil
Reply #43 - 04/04/13 at 20:34:49
 
He, he. Now I decide to search this. :p

Just did an oil/filter on my 08 today with 3,000 miles on it. I put in a valvoline synthetic with an MA2 rating. Guessing I should put some ZDDP additive??

I have to say shifting is much, much smoother than the Dino oil I was using. Less clunky feel.
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Re: oil
Reply #44 - 04/09/13 at 15:28:26
 
Using Valvoline 4 stroke dino oil for around $3 per quart, or Suzuki dino, whatever is cheapest on the shelf.

87 Savage around 30K.

Still Runs fine Cool
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