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ZAR Serious Thumper Offline Rock this town! Rock it inside out! Posts: 961 Kentucky, USA Gender:	Re: oil Reply #15 - 03/28/13 at 19:38:28 Shell RotellaT. It's what I use in both my bikes,my pre 1970 tractors and anything else with "pre-historic" flat tappet technology. It's kept my old junk alive this long....ain't changing now!
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nateordie YaBB Newbies Offline impossible is nothing Posts: 37 Gender:	Re: oil Reply #16 - 03/28/13 at 23:40:02 is the rotella t6 oil a motorcycle specific oil? I read some about it online and I'm only finding that it's for diesel vehicles. Is there a motorcycle specific type for the rotella oil or no?
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: oil Reply #17 - 03/28/13 at 23:51:17 Have you read our owners manual? Then take a look at the back of rotella T or T6.
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rfw2003

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Yantis, TX

Re: oil
Reply #18 - 03/28/13 at 23:53:24

nateordie wrote on 03/28/13 at 23:40:02:

is the rotella t6 oil a motorcycle specific oil? I read some about it online and I'm only finding that it's for diesel vehicles. Is there a motorcycle specific type for the rotella oil or no?

It does have the JASO MA rating printed right on the bottle, so yes it is great and o.k. for use in motorcycles with wet clutch systems.

R.F.

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1996 Savage, Corbin Seat, K&N filter, Slip Streamer Enterprise II windshield, LED bullet signals, Cat's eye LED tail light Ryca reverse cone long muffler

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: oil Reply #19 - 03/29/13 at 04:55:57 Except for the labeling, Rotella is exactly the oil needed for aircooled motors with unit transmissions and wet clutches. Nothing is gained by using "motorcycle oil" instead of Rotella (dino or synth) in a Savage. Your wallet will weigh a little less, though, so your 0-60 time will improve by 28 nanoseconds.
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nateordie YaBB Newbies Offline impossible is nothing Posts: 37 Gender:	Re: oil Reply #20 - 03/29/13 at 10:04:29 sounds good thanks for all your help!
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houstonbofh Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 420 Houston, TX Gender:	Re: oil Reply #21 - 03/29/13 at 22:32:26 JASO-MA is "Real motorcycle oil." That is the entire point of the spec. So is JSAO-MA2, but it has less zzdp.
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Greg

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Re: oil
Reply #22 - 03/30/13 at 05:52:47

houstonbofh wrote on 03/29/13 at 22:32:26:

JASO-MA is "Real motorcycle oil." That is the entire point of the spec. So is JSAO-MA2, but it has less zzdp.

I keep reading this about MA2. My Magic Google Fingers must be broken because I can't find a source. I even emailed the company I purchase my oil from to ask and have yet received a response. Can you (or anyone) point me in the right direction?

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2002 Savage.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: oil Reply #23 - 03/30/13 at 06:36:40 You want a JASO-MA 4T oil
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Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12673 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: oil Reply #24 - 03/30/13 at 06:51:24 Explain the rating to him, Bill. What does the 4T stand for?
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Greg Serious Thumper Offline Molon Labe Posts: 1251 Southeast PA, uSA Gender:	Re: oil Reply #25 - 03/30/13 at 07:02:27 4T = 4 stroke
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Greg

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Re: oil
Reply #26 - 03/30/13 at 07:05:12

I just spent another hour and a half with Google trying to find the difference between JASO MA and MA2. I cannot find an authoritative reference anywhere. From what I am gathering, if the oil meets both MA1 and MA2, the manufacturer can just put MA on the bottle. So we wouldn't know if it is MA2 or not. I also see where there is less catalytic converter harming stuff in MA2 but can find no reference to ZDDP anywhere.

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2002 Savage.

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: oil
Reply #27 - 03/30/13 at 07:10:02

While we wait for Bill, here is the current JASO ratings listing system, fresh of a few months ago.

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

Note please that they have changed their nomenclature again, they have a JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB in their nomenclature, with each classification carrying a separate meaning.

(Bill's 4T is a Mobil 1 advertising gimmick that carries no real meaning)

Note please, that none of the JASO MA group of standards have anything to do with ZDDP content -- they merely describe what the oil in question does when subjected to the JASO T 904:2006 clutch system friction test.

Remember always that the Savage engine has unique requirements that no longer fit the JASO categorizations very well. We can no longer trust a JASO rating to tell us if an oil is good for the Savage or not, especially since they keep changing and multiplying their various standards.

That is why we bother to keep a recommended oil listing in the Tech Section.

Plus, JASO has plumb gotten a little weird ..... and we know some games will be played by some oil makers using this particular statement.

If all three properties of a JASO MA oil fall within the limits specified as MA1 then the oil can be classified as a JASO MA1 oil. If all its properties fall within the limits of MA2 then it can be classified as a JASO MA2 oil. If some properties fall within the MA1 subcategory but others in MA2 then the product is simply a JASO MA product.

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Greg

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Molon Labe

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Re: oil
Reply #28 - 03/30/13 at 07:28:23

I believe the MA ratings have nothing to do with ZDDP content. It has been mentioned on this site a few times that MA2 contains less and no one has ever disagreed so it must be true, right? Oldfeller states it as well: "JASO limits ZDDP to what, 1,000 PPM as a maximum number in MA2 (our old Savage requires 1,250 PPM as a minimum, going up to 1,850 PPM in some of the older oil products that were around when the bike came out." from http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1362678961/2#2 and this is adding to my confusion.

Now adding to my confusion is the statement that 4T is a Mobil1 gimmick. It is mentioned on the site OF linked to: http://www.oilspecifications.org/jaso.php. Is that a Mobil1 site?

I am confused by the statement made in our recommended oils post as well: "(we avoid JASO MA2 and JASO MB as they indicate oils that are NO GOOD for the Savage motorcycle)". Why are they no good? I get the MB spec being no good, but don't understand why the MA2 is no good.

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SALB Serious Thumper Offline FSO Posts: 668 Whittier, AK Gender:	Re: oil Reply #29 - 03/30/13 at 19:49:29 2T = 2 stroke 4T = 4 stroke
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