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Assembling the Super Thumper (Read 1104 times)
Kris01
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #30 - 01/18/16 at 19:47:48
 
Hey Super Thumper, I'm curious as to where you got your flow numbers for the BS40. If it does flow 140 cfm then you are right. It is too large. However, knowing what little I know of this carbs efficiency (or lack thereof), maybe Suzuki upsized the carb to compensate for lack of efficiency.  Huh

Have you flow tested this carb?
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2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #31 - 01/19/16 at 09:22:54
 
No I have not flow tested the OEM Mikuni BS40 carb.

I have included below some information I have gathered over a considerable amount of time on the internet doing research in this area.

Keep in mind that Mikuni does NOT provide airflow numbers for their carbs (Ever wonder why ?)

Calculate Carb CFM needed for a given engine size

Required Intake CFM for an given engine size

Volumetric Efficiancy (VE) is affected by intake type, camshaft grind and type, boost, and many other factors.
Here are some guidelines.
Factory engine: 65%-75%
Mild street performance, flat-tappet cam: 80% - 83%
Mild street performance, roller cam: 90% - 93%
All-out race engine, 95%-105%
Blown engines, typically over 100% or higher, depending on amount of boost.

Instructions
1) Find the displacement of your engine in cubic inches (CID). Determine the maximum RPM for your car. For example you may have 450 CID with a maximum RPM of 5,000.
2) Check the volumetric efficiency (VE) of your engine. If you don't know, you can assume that it's about 80 percent since most street cars are designed to that level of efficiency.
3) Multiply the CID by the maximum RPM and divide that product by the product of 3,456 and the VE. For example you would multiply 450 by 5,000 to get 2,250,000 and then multiply 3,456 by 80 percent to get 2,764.8. Then divide 2,250,00 by 2,764.8 to get the CFM required: 813.8.
4) Select a carburetor that will produce 110 percent to 120 percent of the required CFM. For example with a required CFM of 813.8 you would select a carburetor that can produce between 895 and 975 CFM.

Another formula to use is:  CID x RPM Divided by 3456 = CFM

Suzuki Savage Engine:

652cc - 40 ci
VE - 75% - performance cam - 80%
Engine redline - 6500 RPM

Required CFM:    Stock engine: 62 to 79 cfm (calculated)
Required CFM:    Performance modified  engine: 66 to 84 cfm (calculated)
http://www.carburetion.com/calc.aspAprox  
Approximately 71 CFM Needed for a 40 CID Mildly Built Engine

36 Centimeters (cm) = 14.173228346457 Inches (in)

A Mikuni 36mm carb flows approximately 120 CFM.


Carb CFM calculators
http://www.csgnetwork.com/cfmcalc.html
http://speedmaster79.com/tools/carburetor-size-needed/
http://www.bleachburnout.com/blog/2008/10/17/carburetor-cfm-calculator-with-g...
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.html

Mikuni Carb size (IN CFM)

34mm MIKUNI Carburetor 109 CFM
35mm MIKUNI Carburetor 114 CFM
36mm MIKUNI Carburetor 119 CFM
38mm MIKUNI Carburetor 129 CFM
40mm Mikuni Carburetor 140 CFM
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #32 - 01/19/16 at 10:13:58
 
These calculators are for car... v6's and v8's,  therefore almost continuous flow.
If we were a twin with 80ci, then a carb with 120/140 would be calculated.
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Kris01
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #33 - 01/19/16 at 17:58:33
 
If your numbers are correct then a 34 mm Mikuni would be a lot more responsive. Maybe the stock carb's size is one of the reasons why this bike runs so lean from the factory.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #34 - 01/19/16 at 22:44:15
 
The OEM Mikuni BS40 carb flows about 140 cfm. This is way too much according to the charts. I use a 38mm Lectron Power Jet carb (129 CFM) on my "Super Thumper" Due to the Lectron's patented venturi, flat slide and tapered needle this carb has razor sharp throttle response and a smooth power band all the way to 8000 RPM. My "Super Thumper" engine has a strong, flat power band all the way to the 8000 RPM self imposed redline. The fuel economy went from 52mpg in stock form to 65mpg in full performance trim. I have gotten 69mpg but the low end throttle response was not as crisp as I wanted it to be so I went richer on the needle and got the great throttle response I wanted and the fuel economy dropped only slightly from 69 to 65mpg.


Those of you that don't need your engine to rev to 8000 rpm could use the smaller 36mm Lectron carb and get even better throttle response and fuel economy. I think with the right parts and some fine tuning we could get over 70mpg with a nicely modified 650 Savage engine that still makes much more power than stock.

I have a friend who rides his Aprillia 250 scooter all the time and he gets 68mpg and he thought this was great until he rode my 700cc "Super Thumper" that gets 65mpg and rides like a real motorcycle.

Now he wants to sell his scooter and buy one of my custom built bikes with a performance engine in it. Cool
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Art Webb
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #35 - 01/20/16 at 09:01:28
 
so do I  Grin
but I still want the wind protection, and storage capacity oif a scoot
Can't have it all Art  Roll Eyes
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badwolf
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #36 - 01/20/16 at 15:56:24
 
Art, Yes you can....
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Kris01
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #37 - 01/20/16 at 19:00:34
 
Super Thumper wrote on 01/19/16 at 22:44:15:
I think with the right parts and some fine tuning we could get over 70mpg with a nicely modified 650 Savage engine that still makes much more power than stock.


In stock form (read: lean), I was getting nearly 80 mpg but it was a totally stock engine.
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There's no problem that a full tank of gas and a sunny day can't fix!

2008 S40, Rotella T 15W-40 w/ZDDP added, Dyna, 140/90-15, Battery Tender Jr., Seat lift, #52.5/150/3 washers, Raptor
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Super Thumper
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #38 - 01/21/16 at 08:00:12
 
That is a nice looking bike! I'll bet it's very comfortable too.

If you want to improve the handling just add 2" longer rear shocks with some better dampening....the 2" longer length raises the rear just enough to alter the front fork's rake greatly improving steering and handling. I used Harley Sportster progressive rear shocks....they are about 2" longer than the OEM Suzuki shocks but I had to drill out the shock's mounting holes to 9/16" to fit over the Savage's mounting studs.
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Art Webb
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #39 - 01/22/16 at 09:27:14
 
Nice setup Badwolf, I know for a fact my underseat storage will hold more than those saddlebags, but the top case might make up the difference (my underseat will hold 2 FF helmets, or a full backpack AND a few hardback books) the Yamaha 650 seat might come close to the scooter seat in comfort
You still have no leg protection, can't stand on the pegs to relieve butt burn (I can stand up on the boards) and unless you've re geared, it's likely not smooth at 80  Wink
to be honest, if I'd had a few day with the scoot, instead of a few miles, I likely would have kept the S40 and modded it
One thing I can say, forward controls or haighway bars are a good idea
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badwolf
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #40 - 01/22/16 at 10:16:51
 
Art,  Yes it has both Kaw pullys, and a 150/90-15 shinko 230. It is running less than 3400 at 60. The back box will hold 2 ff helmets, and the top rack is great when I take a rifle to the range. The side bags hold the tools and rainsuit (I am in Fl, it rains ALOT) in one side and the other side is normally empty. You are right about the leg protection, when I get my PC800 back going the S40 is going in the back porch so I can build a frame mount faring out of foam and fiberglass. Unfortunately, I'm too busy riding to finish wrenching. But, I'm starting to get the hang of this retirement thing.
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Art Webb
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Re: Assembling the Super Thumper
Reply #41 - 01/22/16 at 11:22:25
 
you've definitely done a heckuva job there, and it do make me miss my S40
part of the trade was to get some credit history going, so I'm not balked buying things I want in the future
I can say I have no problem with the idea of getting another S40 / savage, and sort of wish I'd kept mine (I could have, no down payment was required)
question is, would I have ridden it enough to keep it running?
I test rode a C50 while I was at it, there is no way one of those will ever come home with me  Shocked
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