Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 03/08/13 at 06:47:35:


I'm a blue-collar layman that couldn't care less about your feelings. I don't play politics and I don't kiss ass. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong no matter how silver the tongue. You might wanna wake up to that fact.

Cheerios stale this morning, Cavi?... ...

Since the ex-girlfriend and I drive less than 10 miles for 80% of our cage trips, my next car will be a plug-in hybrid.  I'll not be using any gas at all most of the time.  The expenses for providing energy to drive from place to place will be the equivalent of well over 100 mpg.

Some good points...and driving a MGB back n the 60's, I almost bought a fiat but there was no dealer near by.  Really liked the Peugot when I had to go to station wagons but again no dealer near by.  Since I'm in greater syracuse for a couple of years, at least the Fiat dealer is less than 1/2 hr away, and i have time (retired) so I'm giving it some thought.  Will test drive one this week hopefully to see if they are at all comfortable (for a small car).

I noted in another thread somewhere, a driver was have a trannny seal issue and was inquiring about lemon laaw, but wanted to replace the Fiat with another Fiat (likes the car)>

I will see the Suby next week....no need to rush the shopping expewrience.

This thread started with the new FIAT 500 and went on to discuss other - yet related - issues.

My humble contribution, if I may (after all, I'n Italian, it's "my" FIAT we're talking about  )

FIAT engines are on par with Peugeot for reliability and sturdiness.
Let's not get all hot about "this Nissan" and "that Toyota" and "my Mazda", I'm talking about European cars with European engines running in a European environment where everyone races everyone else at the lights and you will see a golfcart-size baby racer with a puny 4-cyl 600cc engine porking out a good 40bhp... that was FIAT Abarth in the 1950s.

I quoted FIAT and Peugeot because anywhere you go in European countryside, whenever you see a 40-50 year old jalopy driven by Grandma Duck or Gus Goose... be reassured it's a Peugeot or a FIAT!!!

FIAT's current CEO and his predecessor got FIAT out of trouble...  literally pulling it by the hair !!!

What we have today is a range of motor vehicles which are extremely high tech, extremely reliable ("Chrysler reliable", I don't know how that sounds to you but the slogan works over here!) and with the traditional Italian style for flair and design.

As for mileage... depends on the engine: Italian 500s come with a 1200cc rated at 60bhp, a 1400cc rated at 85 or 100bhp, and the "Abarth" with or without turbocharger, rated at... how much did you say you will pay? THAT powerful !
So, a 190+bhp FIAT 500 WILL smoke any musclecar anywhere except for the 1/4 mile and the full mile.

Breakfast in San Francisco and lunch in Los Angeles, driving Highway 1 along the coast? The 500 driver will have the barbecue ready and the the Chevy driver will still be buying steaks  
Not to mention the twisty roads in New England, the Appalachians or the Rocky Mountains.

DIESELS ? Who wants diesels ??? YOU DO !

Consider this:

1.a. you will need 2 - 3 barrels of crude oil to obtain one barrel (50-55 gals) of diesel&kerosene (50 - 65% loss);
1.b. refine that a second time, and with a similar 50-60% loss you obtain gasoline.
2.a. if you can get 40mpg from any kind of gasoline car... the similar displacement, similar bhp diesel engine will deliver at least 60mpg!

Sooo

Putting these three statements into one sentence...
- 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you never more than 25% gasoline (13 gals) which at 40mpg = 520 miles;
- 1 barrel of crude (55 gals) will give you at least 50% diesel (26 gals) which at 60 mpg = 1560 miles.

So... why waste the national oil bill by getting less miles with more fuel ???  

Lisa wants the 500 convertible to replace her deceased (finally, good riddance) 95 Outback wagon. Even though we have a perfectly good Super Beetle in the barn that just needs a hot battery and licensing.

MP- Chrysler reliable? Since when, they haven't made a decent car since 1969, a decent truck since 1971...   The puny 2.2L turbo versions of the Daytona were tolerable econo-boxes, but... they can't hold a candle to a rwd V8 or even an ancient flathead 6 cylinder rwd platform.

The common perception of diesel is still noisy, dirty and stink. Hard to overcome a rep earned by on road heavy truck tractors and VW Rabbits...  

Did you know that a diesel engine can burn ANY liquid fuel that will pass through its injector nozzles?  Alcohol counts, as does direct injected natural gas.  

Injector nozzles are just fast acting on off valves -- a computer tells it when to inject (advance) and how much volume and how long to let the flow continue.   Smart "any fuel" vehicles are possible right now using current technology.

Yup, check out flex fuel cars in Brazil, where alcohol is king and bio-diesel / bio-alcohol natural gas cars are the flex fuel cars of the future.

Alcohol only vehicles run best at 17:1 compression, which is the low end of the normal diesel range (which is generally 20:1).  Natural gas can be metered at the cylinder head by injectors and this has been done for decades now on stationary marine and generator products.

Gasoline is inefficient to produce all right, but our auto industry pivots on it now and they are very resistant to change in the USA that will invalidate the last 10 years of production investment.


===========


Who builds most of the Brazilian flex fuel vehicles?     Ford of Brazil.

Last year diesel cars in Europe became more of the market than the gasoline cars.

In Brazil, all cars are flex fuel by law (really flex fuel from 100% gas to 100% alcohol).  


Why can't we buy a good gas mileage affordable car?    Politics and lobbying.