SuzukiSavage.com - Lithium Ion Battery Help

Bobber Fett

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Lithium Ion Battery Help
01/27/13 at 19:48:00

Fellow Savages,

I've been intrigued by the Li-Ion batteries for about a year now, and swore that I'd replace my sealed battery with one when it died. Well, I threw my battery on the charger and it only holds about 11.91 V; the time has come. Since people have been using them for a while, I'm hoping that a year later there might be more information available about these (seemingly) wonderful batteries.

What I'm hoping to do is:
1.) make a list of all of the options of what companies offer them and the cost of each. Looking through the forums, I've seen ballistic and shorai. Are there any others that I've missed?
2.) What are the experiences with the batteries? Any issues with them so far? Any appear better than others?

I kinda just wanna get some talk generated (not usually a problem on this forum Grin

)

Thanks ladies and gents!

--Bobber

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Smokestack

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #1 - 01/28/13 at 05:09:13

I know some sportbike guys that swear by the Ballistics. I haven't looked into any other manufacturers, 'cuz if I get one it'll be a Ballistic, if for no other reason than that 3 year warranty. Good enough for me.

One of my friends has a GSX-R that sat for 2 years with dirty gas and oil, but fired right up after he cleaned the carbs out. He had a Ballistic.

my .02c.

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Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #2 - 01/28/13 at 06:11:19 Think Boeing 787 Dreamliner...
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #3 - 01/28/13 at 06:19:09 Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:11:19: Think Boeing 787 Dreamliner... yeah,.. THAT's really analogous!
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Gyrobob

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #4 - 01/28/13 at 06:27:50

My buddy in the Double RYCA Build used a Ballistic li-ion since his lead-acid battery crapped out while we were building the bikes. It is impressive how much more cranking power they have than the standard 10 pound lump of lead. His is about the size of can of spam and weighs about 2 pounds.

One of the upgrades I will do for my RYCA bike is to remove the side covers and all they stuff they cover so there is just open space behind the motor. The li-ion battery will fit in the tail section,... or maybe I'll move down under the forward part of the swingarm.

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Charon

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #5 - 01/28/13 at 07:42:43

Gyrobob wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:19:09:

Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:11:19:

Think Boeing 787 Dreamliner...

yeah,.. THAT's really analogous!

Roll Eyes

I guess you are right. There is no analogy at all. Except that the Dreamliner was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries for their high storage capacity in relatively light weight and small size, precisely the same reason people talk about using them on motorcycles. That's the same reason the Chevy Volt was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries. And the reason the Airbus A350 (on the drawing boards) is being designed to use them. Nope, I suppose there is no analogy.

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perajani YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 45 Finland	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #6 - 01/28/13 at 08:02:08 I found this one from this forum, still have not tried it. The size and weight difference is huge.
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paulmarshall Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1268 Carterton,New Zealand Gender:	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #7 - 01/28/13 at 09:49:21 I put this in my Savage some weeks ago, and never missed a beat.
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Gyrobob

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #8 - 01/28/13 at 10:26:49

Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 07:42:43:

Gyrobob wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:19:09:

Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:11:19:

Think Boeing 787 Dreamliner...

yeah,.. THAT's really analogous!

Roll Eyes

I guess you are right. There is no analogy at all. Except that the Dreamliner was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries for their high storage capacity in relatively light weight and small size, precisely the same reason people talk about using them on motorcycles. That's the same reason the Chevy Volt was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries. And the reason the Airbus A350 (on the drawing boards) is being designed to use them. Nope, I suppose there is no analogy.

Glad you understand, now.

I've been in aviation for a while, and have ridden motorcycles for a while. It is not very hard to see the different requirements for a 200 million dollar .8mach airliner vs a 2 thousand dollar .1mach motorcycle.

The batteries on an MD-ll (larger than a 787) are about the size of two Honda Civic batteries. If the situation were analogous, we'd be using a AAA mini-penlight battery in a Savage.

I'll admit, though, the advantages of lithium ion batteries are significant. That's why I'll be switching in a while. My RYCA bike will be down for a month or so while RYCA respokes the rear wheel, so I'll probably use that time to handle a few of those projects like setting up the battery.

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« Last Edit: 01/30/13 at 10:05:35 by Gyrobob »

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verslagen1

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #9 - 01/28/13 at 11:50:17

Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 07:42:43:

Gyrobob wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:19:09:

Charon wrote on 01/28/13 at 06:11:19:

Think Boeing 787 Dreamliner...

yeah,.. THAT's really analogous!
Roll Eyes

I guess you are right. There is no analogy at all. Except that the Dreamliner was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries for their high storage capacity in relatively light weight and small size, precisely the same reason people talk about using them on motorcycles. That's the same reason the Chevy Volt was designed to use Lithium Ion batteries. And the reason the Airbus A350 (on the drawing boards) is being designed to use them. Nope, I suppose there is no analogy.

The application-failure/success should not be ignored for all the applications. there are a number of laptop failures, cellphone failures as well.

The dreamliner failure I would take with a grain of salt, it's a new application and most likely highly stressed. Roll Eyes

real life use probably did not equate to lab tests. They'll have to adjust to make it work.

But here, analogy not needed. You have numerous m/c's converting from lead to LiPo.

How many have burst into flames?

How many have failed to start?

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #10 - 01/28/13 at 12:04:45 Do you feel drawn to LiPo batteries? Do you find them mystifying & intriguing & desirable? If you cant walk past one on a shelf without Feeling its presence, before you even see it, is that because of LiPo suction?
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Dave

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #11 - 01/29/13 at 09:41:31

Well I looked at the website for the EarthX batteries, and there are 2 choices for the A size battery. The 6 AH battery is $ 119, and the 12 AH battery is $ 159.

Our original equipment lead acid battery is a 14AH battery. The following is from he EarthX website:

How does the “EqAh” capacity rating compare to lead-acid Ah ratings?
A Lithium battery can use 100% of its storage capability (measured as Amp- Hour, Ah); while a lead-acid battery typically only uses 30%. So a 2Ah Lithium battery has the equivalent capacity to a 6Ah lead-acid. Our ratings are shown as the lead-acid equivalent (EqAh)

Since they are listing their batteries "as the lead-acid equivalent", the 12AH battery is probably the best one to get if you want a similar sized capacity. The 6AH may work OK if you ride only in warm weather and never have to crank for long. (What is the experience of people who have used the 6AH one.....and for how long have you used it?)

The LiOn battery is supposed to have a very long life.....unless you completely discharge or overcharge it.....then it is toast!

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paulmarshall

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Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help
Reply #12 - 01/29/13 at 10:36:37

Dave wrote on 01/29/13 at 09:41:31:

Well I looked at the website for the EarthX batteries, and there are 2 choices for the A size battery. The 6 AH battery is $ 119, and the 12 AH battery is $ 159.

Our original equipment lead acid battery is a 14AH battery. The following is from he EarthX website:

How does the “EqAh” capacity rating compare to lead-acid Ah ratings?
A Lithium battery can use 100% of its storage capability (measured as Amp- Hour, Ah); while a lead-acid battery typically only uses 30%. So a 2Ah Lithium battery has the equivalent capacity to a 6Ah lead-acid. Our ratings are shown as the lead-acid equivalent (EqAh)

Since they are listing their batteries "as the lead-acid equivalent", the 12AH battery is probably the best one to get if you want a similar sized capacity. The 6AH may work OK if you ride only in warm weather and never have to crank for long. (What is the experience of people who have used the 6AH one.....and for how long have you used it?)

The LiOn battery is supposed to have a very long life.....unless you completely discharge or overcharge it.....then it is toast!

Hi Dave, I brought the ETX12A. The Cold Crank Amps (CCA) is 120 which is lower than our standard batt, But have had no problems yet.If you want more CCA you have to go up a size. When I first looked at this I too was worried that the Batt wouldn't crank in cold weather. Lately I have been cranking without the Decomp and the Batt cranks no prob. If space isn't a issue I would go to a bigger Batt with more CCA,However I have had no issues to date using the ETX12A.

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Badass94Cad Senior Member Offline This space for rent Posts: 313 Mass-->Jerz-->PA! Gender:	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #13 - 01/30/13 at 10:01:51 For those who have swapped to a smaller battery and mounted it to the swingarm, any pics?
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18099 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Lithium Ion Battery Help Reply #14 - 01/30/13 at 10:26:50 Badass94Cad wrote on 01/30/13 at 10:01:51: For those who have swapped to a smaller battery and mounted it to the swingarm, any pics? The only ones that come to mind are here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1259644714
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