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Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again! (Read 18794 times)
Dave
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #510 - 02/16/26 at 15:27:25
 
I put more of the bike together today.

The first thing I did was check the valves.  They were really close and I only adjusted one exhaust and one intake....they were both just a bit tighter than the other valve - so I tried to get them as close as I could at 0.004".

I then worked on the clutch side and put the stock oil drive gears in place, and then the clutch, right side cover, exhaust and carb.

For some time the clutch has been dragging just a bit.  Not so much that it causes any issue putting the bike in gear or shifting - just enough that finding neutral is made a bit difficult.  While assembling the clutch I notice that there seemed to be some excessive drag when I would turn the inner and outer hubs with the plates in.  I took the clutch apart and left the plates out and assembled just the inner and outer hubs and torqued it down....and there was drag and it seemed the hubs were held too tightly together.

I took the clutch apart and started looking closely - and I could see the washers had wear on them where the sleeve pushed against the washers.  This likely happened during the period that I had assembled the clutch without the spring washer on the outer fiber disc and used a disc with the full thickness.  Both DragBikeMike and I tried this and it seemed to work just fine at first - then after a few rides I started to get a squeal/shudder when first letting the clutch out.  The clutch was not happy with that spring washer being gone and we both put it back into the clutch assembly (lesson learned).  It appears however that it created wear on the washer that causes the inner/outer hub to be too close together.  I had some washers that were in better shape and used those - I am going to order some new washers.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #511 - 02/19/26 at 12:47:06
 
The wear on that washer is pretty darned deep.  There is also significant rubbing indicated in way of the oil pump drive gear.  When I had problems with my clutch setup, I also had bronze deposits on the sleeve indicating that the basket was binding on the sleeve.  I assume that was caused by the basket cocking as the clutch was engaged.  That wave-washer assembly seems to stabilize the basket and maintain perpendicularity.  I have no idea how it does that.  Must be a nuclear phenomenon.

The pump drive gear should have a fair amount of axial play (right & left) when the clutch hub nut is tightened.  Did you happen to notice if your drive gear had axial clearance when you experienced the drag between the hub & basket?

This pic shows area of concern.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #512 - 02/19/26 at 12:54:21
 
The clutch basket and pump drive gear should turn independently from the trans input shaft and sleeve.  The sleeve is pinched between the two large thrust washers.  I believe when the basket cocks and starts to bind on the sleeve it tends to rotate the sleeve on the input shaft.  I think that is what causes the heavy wear and galling on the washers.  Once the washers wear a bit the nut becomes loose and the condition gets worse.

Do you recall if you had any bronze deposits on your sleeve, or any indication of heavy wear or galling on the sleeve?

This is an example of what mine was doing.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #513 - 02/19/26 at 13:05:50
 
Once I reinstalled the wave washer and special fiber plate, the clutch worked flawlessly.  Mine has been trouble free for around 50K or so.

When you had the problem with squeal/shudder, did you note that the hub nut was loose when you disassembled for inspection?  As I mentioned, I found my clutch hub nut loose each time I went into it for inspection.  After I reinstalled the wave-washer, the nut has remained tight.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #514 - 02/23/26 at 03:13:42
 
Unfortunately - I did not pay attention to how tight the clutch nut was when I took thinks apart - I used my electric torque wrench and "zapped" it off!

The shaft bushing looks good - just a bit of a polished sheen on the outermost surface at each end.

The oil pump drive gear was definitely rubbing on the washer as shown by the wear marks - it does however have clearance when on a new washer that is flat.

Here is the backside of the washer - you can see where it was moving and got some scarring where the washer is in contact with the inner bearing race.

I will put in new washers when I go back in to install the overdrive pump gears.....once I get a few miles "oil leak free" miles with the stock oil pump gears and get baseline oil pressure data.

Today I will likely get oil in the bike and start it up for the first run with the new piston.  Breaking in the new skirt coating requires just a short run to get some heat in the piston/cylinder - then a shut down and complete cool off.  This process is repeated a few times prior to going on any ride - and the first few rides are very short and very little throttle.

(NOTE:  While I was waiting for the coated piston to come back from getting the skirt coated - I replaced the worn cam chain in the 1972 BMW R75/5 that has 60,000 miles on it.  On Friday, February 20 it was 60 degrees and the roads were clear and dry, and I took the bike for a test ride and it did great.  Now 3 days later on Monday morning it is 22 degrees and overnight we got a new layer of snow covering everything......Dagummit!)    
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #515 - 02/23/26 at 12:43:51
 
I put the rest of the bike together today, and put 9 quarts of oil in the engine.....the overfill of oil gets everything coated in oil and the level goes up into the bottom of the cylinder about 3 inches.  I then pumped oil into the oil filter housing until I could see it coming out of the cam by looking into the rear valve adjustment opening to get the oil system filled.

I then drained the oil out and refilled it to the proper level.

The bike started instantly I ran it at about 2,000 rpm for about 15 seconds....it sounded great without any piston rattle.  I had about 15 pounds of oil pressure at the head with the cold 30 weight break-in oil.  I will run it every day a bit longer and get it a bit hotter each time.

The weather is 22 degrees and snowy - there likely won't be any riding the bike for a while. Angry
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #516 - 03/21/26 at 14:08:01
 
I had a bit of a setback for riding recently - we had a water service line leak that put us out of water for nearly 2 weeks.  It was a major project and I did my best to fix it myself by digging up a 'TEE" that I suspected was the cause.  Then I had to hire a professional plumber and turn this into a major project....we got our water back yesterday around 6PM.

I went on my first "ride" today after getting the engine back together with a new factory 'OEM" head gasket and the Line2Line abradable coating on the piston skirt....along with putting the stock oil pump gears in temporarily.

The ride went great and it is so nice to be back on this bike!  There are no signs of oil leakage, the engine runs smooth and quiet and it appears it is back to being the bike I have enjoyed so much.

On the ride out from home I kept the throttle settings very low and didn't go over 3,000 rpm.  I never felt the piston coating creating any drag as the piston came up to temperature.  I have moved the temperature sensor up to the front, top right mounting hole for the cylinder head chrome cover.....it really doesn't provide any relevant information up that high on the head as the temperature never went over 121 on the ride.

The stock oil pump gears with 5w-40 Rotella T6 provided 9psi at the oil filter housing and 4 psi at the cam oil circuit in the head at 3,000 rpm.  At idle I had 4 psi at the filter housing and "maybe" 0.5psi at the cam...although it was more likely a reading of 0psi at 1,100rpm.

On the way back I still didn't go over 3,000 rpm - but I did apply a bit more throttle and was close to riding at my normal cruising speeds.

Looks like it is going to be a great summer!!!!!!! Grin
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #517 - Yesterday at 16:20:19
 
I was able to go on a 40 mile ride today.

The bike is still oil tight!!!! Smiley

I mostly rode at 3,000 rpm today with a bit more throttle and cruising at 50mph for a while.

I did get up to 4,000 rpm a couple of times to check the oil pressure.  There was 11psi at the filter housing and 5psi at the cam.

Rain coming overnight - Wednesday may be another day to squeeze in a ride.  The month of March brings a lot of ups/downs in temperatures and wet.....April is warmer and wetter.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #518 - Today at 15:48:39
 
Nothin like an oil free motorcycle.  Good job.

What can you tell us about your instruments?  Where did you mount the gage for your top end pressure?  Any specifics on the hose that you used?  Is the hose small enough and durable enough so that you could use it for a permanent installation on the instrument cluster?  I've had good success with the parker plastic tubing, but I wouldn't mind a switch to hose if it's not too bulky.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #519 - Today at 18:02:49
 
The oil filter pressure is being taken from the oil filter cover.  This pressure is "prior" to the oil going through the filter......which will be a bit higher reading than occurs after the oil passes through the filter.

When the engine and oil are cold - the thick oil can create a very high reading.  That is why I have a valve prior to the pressure gauge, as the cold oil can create a pressure much higher than the 30psi limit of the gauge.  NOTE:  I originally used a 60psi gauge and it could handle the cold pressure - but it was not accurate enough to display the 4psi that occurs at idle when the engine is up to running temperature.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #520 - Today at 18:09:48
 
My "temporary" pressure gauge for the head is mounted at the handlebar in a very crude manner.

I could use a 20psi gauge safely up here.....maybe even a 15psi - provided I don't start the bike in very cold weather.

I have not found a gauge that looks pleasant enough to mount up here permanently.  Perhaps some vintage looking gauge could appeal to me.

The hose is Gates 1/8" 4219XL fuel hose.  I had to look around a while to find rubber hose that would work.  Initially I was going to use the cloth covered hose that you see on German engines and is often used as return hose for gas or diesel injection - but that hose (and most rubber fuel line) is only rated for 150 degrees.  This Gates hose is rated for 50psi and 257 degrees.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #521 - Today at 18:17:33
 
The original location I used for the temperature sender was the left rear cylinder head stud.  I originally chose this location as it was easy to get to, and it didn't have an oil passage underneath like the left front cylinder stud does.

With this recent leaky head gasket and oily mess - I didn't want to use any of the cylinder head studs so I could avoid any potential error when torquing them down.  I tried the right front 6mm screw hole for the chrome decorative head cover - but on the 2 rides I have done the temperature has never gone over 124 degrees...it obviously is not very representative of the engine temperature down where the action is.

I have relocated the sensor to the stud under the exhaust port - and I avoided fussing with the torqued nut by installing a second nut.  Thankfully I had a few extra threads that allowed me to access the stud without removing the flanged nut.

I have not run the engine with this new location yet to see what the temperature reading is yet - I am sure it will be higher than the readings I got on the left rear cylinder stud.

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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #522 - Today at 18:28:50
 
This is where I used to have the sensor.

On 2 separate events I reached 300 degrees - both were 90-95 degree days in the mountains.

One event was a steep uphill climb on a very rough gravel road that required 1st gear as the washboard surface prohibited going and faster.

The other event was MMRanch taking me through Pigeon Forge traffic!

On most normal rides I saw 240-260 degrees.

My highway temperatures dropped 15-20 degrees when I changed to the Kawasaki pulley.

I also saw another 10-15 degree drop when I switched to the 94mm Flat Top piston from the 95mm Pop Top piston.
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