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Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again! (Read 18122 times)
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #375 - 07/12/24 at 06:44:57
 
[quote author=6E64606A61686C653B3D39090 link=1358099938/360#374 date=1720787933][i]DragBikeMike wrote on 07/11/24 at 23:50:07:
I can only dream of 110 octane pump gas.  
Go to your local general aviation airport (or the FBO at a larger airport) and buy 100LL AVGAS. It's not as expensive a race fuel (but dang close) and has the added benefit of being a consistent blend with strict transport rules.


I have used 100LL Avgas a few times.  I initially used it to get a coating of lead on the valves and seats in case it would help the durability of the valves.

My bike seemed to run a bit smoother on the Avgas.  No noticeable power increase but it just seemed to be a bit less angry sounding when full throttle was applied.  For a while I was putting Avgas in all my lawn equipment for the last run of the year prior to winter storage in an effort to keep the ethanol from corroding the fuel system over the winter (now I just run them dry before storage).

The larger airports with active operators are hard to convince they should sell you a 5 gallon can of Avgas, as there is no road tax on it and they get nervous about it not going exclusively into aircraft.  I have a small local airport that has a fuel pump and all you need to buy gas is a credit card and an N number from an aircraft.......I use N1040K which was the 1946 Luscombe 8A that I learned to fly and was my first scary solo flight!

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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #376 - 07/12/24 at 08:56:31
 
The difference in the wear marks on the spacers might be due to using different alloys if they are aluminum (as it appears to be).  If there's some hammering going on 6061-T6 might be a bit soft, and upgrading the spacer to 2024-T6 or 7075-T6 would help resist deformation.

6061-T6 95 Brinell
2024-T6 125 Brinell
7075-T6 150 Brinell

or make a steel spacer.  4140 annealed is 197 Brinell.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #377 - 07/12/24 at 14:41:47
 
Michael Moore wrote on 07/12/24 at 08:56:31:
The difference in the wear marks on the spacers might be due to using different alloys if they are aluminum (as it appears to be).


That aluminum was a piece of small rod I had laying in the parts bin.  I do believe it is very soft stuff.  It is very light to the feel and a very bright color of aluminum. (That is about as technical as I can get about it!!!!)
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #378 - 07/12/24 at 14:54:28
 
Last night I was pondering the completion and start up of the engine today.  I had primed the oil system yesterday - but I got to wondering about the cylinder and piston skirt.  I had not really applied a lot of oil to the piston this time, as I was trying to keep from getting oil all over the place while working with the engine in the frame.

So - I did something weird.  I filled the engine block up with oil - enough oil to bring some oil up into the bottom of the cylinder.  It took about 2.5 gallons.  I made a small level gauge that fit in the oil fill hole.

This is the piece I made to check the level.  It goes in place of the filler plug and the clear tube stands upright.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #379 - 07/12/24 at 15:06:06
 
This is the level of the oil with 2.5 gallons of Shell Rotella T in the crankcase.

Once I got it filled up I rolled the bike forward in gear and let the piston go up and down a few times.  Then I drained out the oil and filled the crankcase to the proper level with the 30 weight break in oil.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #380 - 07/12/24 at 15:09:59
 
The new oil pressure gauge arrived and I put it in.

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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #381 - 07/12/24 at 15:11:24
 
I ran a compression check - it read 208.  That might be a tad less than you would expect - perhaps my 12 year old and small Li-Ion battery that has been dormant for 5 months doesn't have enough power to run the starter fast enough to get a higher reading.....or the new rings and honed cylinder were just letting a bit too much bleed past the piston.  I will take another test later on after I get a few miles on the engine.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #382 - 07/12/24 at 15:24:09
 
I pushed the bike outside and put a couple gallons of fuel in.

When I hit the starter button it fired right up and felt very responsive to the throttle.  I looked for oil leaks and saw nothing - but I felt a bit of wind under the fuel tank.  When I was putting the rear valve inspection cap on I had disconnected the breather hose - once I put it on the wind was gone.

I went for a ride around 2 of our county blocks - a bit less than 5 miles.  The cylinder head temperature seemed to stabilize around 213 at the 30 mph I was riding.  With the other piston it would run around 240 degrees when I ride 50-60 mph.  The engine ran very smoothly - it will be interesting to see if it runs this smooth on premium pump gas once I give up using the race fuel.  There is a bit of a bumping/rattling noise from the piston that is most noticeable at idle - it is not awful and doesn't sound like anything is coming apart.

The oil pressure is absolutely scary!!!!!!  At startup it was around 10-15 psi at idle and when revved it would approach 50psi.  As my ride went on and the engine started to warm up the oil pressure got down to zero anytime the rpm dropped below 2,500 rpm.  While I know there is oil moving around in the engine - it is not a warm fuzzy feeling to see that gauge on "O" so much of the time.  The engine is rated for 30 weight oil in the manual - but it sure doesn't make you feel good.  The last time I put in a cam in this engine I ran 30 weight break-in oil and it worked fine - I just was ignorant of the fact that the oil pressure is so minimal in this engine.  I am going to reread DragBikeMike's oil thread and see what his baseline was when his oil system was stock.

Perhaps I need a thicker oil - or it is time to put my overdrive oil pump gears in this bike!  (I wanted to run it stock first to see what was going on before I made the change).
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #383 - 07/13/24 at 00:34:44
 
Wow!  I'm surprised the oil pressure is that low.  You are measuring the actual pump discharge pressure, like upstream of the filter.  How does the oil get through the filter media?

I have measured that pressure but I believe I checked it with the oil cold.  As I recall, I was concerned about lifting the filter bypass.  Also, I had the high-speed gears installed and the 4th oil circuit operational.  

You didn't change anything that affects oil pressure (other than the oil) so I think you will be fine.  You don't leave it idling for extended periods.  I hope you run that test again when you install the high-speed gears.

Regarding the CCT stop, mine is made from 6061.  Mine also has significantly more spring preload than yours.  I assume your spring runs through the center of the hole in the stop.  Did you check your back travel before you disassembled the CCT.  If you had excessive back travel, it would have allowed the plunger to gain a lot of momentum each time the intake valve closed.  Those plungers really stroke when that cam lobe starts allowing the valve to close.  Without the pawl, there's nothing holding it back.  The plunger really strokes.

Your cranking pressure is drastically lower than mine was with the 94mm flat-top.  Do you have a screw-in compression gage, or is it a lolipop?

Glad you got it runnin.  I think you will like it.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #384 - 07/13/24 at 05:53:45
 
Mike:

Yep, that oil pressure is surprising low!  I agree that this engine has been operating just fine for the last 18,000 miles without me knowing that the oil pressure is not measurable - ignorance is bliss!  The ball and roller bearings really don't need pressure - they need flow.  However - you would think that some kind of a psi reading would be necessary to make some flow, also the cam bearings would benefit from having some psi available!

The compression tester I have is a screw in model.  I ran the test again this morning after my 5 mile run - it is now up to 220 psi, and increase of 12.

I am running the stock cam tensioner spring inside the new plunger I made.  I have allowed 2mm of movement.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #385 - 07/13/24 at 12:26:32
 
As DragBikeMike can tell you - modifying these things seems like a never ending adventure!

This morning I tore into the bike to install the overdrive oil pump gears I made last winter.  The top gears are stock - the bottom gears are a set that have been reversed by cutting out the centers and making new ones that will allow the gears to fit where they are not supposed to fit.

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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #386 - 07/13/24 at 12:28:39
 
A few years ago I made a primitive tool to hold the clutch basket while loosening or tightening the clutch basket.  It is ugly - but is still works!
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #387 - 07/13/24 at 12:37:52
 
A bypass for the overdrive was installed using a carb main jet installed in the hole for a retaining screw for the crankshaft oil seal.  DragBikeMike used a #120 main jet sized hole for his conversion.  I did not have a #120 main jet - I had a #110 and I drilled it out.  A #120 main is .120mm - or 0.0047".  I drilled with a #56 drill which has a hole size of 0.0465'...just a hair smaller.  I installed it in place and bolted the thing back together.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #388 - 07/13/24 at 12:45:12
 
I started the bike up and the oil pressure seemed to be a bit higher when the engine was cold.  At 3,000 rpm the oil pressure was right around 20psi.

I went for a 15 mile ride and got up to a steady 60mph on the way home.  I would have expected cylinder head temperatures to be around 240 on this ride - but it never got over 220.  It appears the piston is running cooler.

Once the 30 weight oil got fully warmed up the pressure was 10psi at 3,000 rpm.  It dropped to zero at idle as it did with the stock gears. Perhaps with the 30 weight oil the #120 bleed is just too big.

My next change will be to remove the clutch cover and drill a hole in the filter housing and tap it - so I can change the bleed screw (jet) by just removing the filter cover.  Also I have discovered the current location using the screw hole for the seal retainer puts a hole at the bottom of the filter cavity - this allows the oil filter housing to empty whenever the bike sits.  If I make the hole higher the oil filter cavity will not drain.
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Re: Thumpin' Special......On The Road Again!
Reply #389 - 07/13/24 at 19:24:26
 
I was able to do some drilling/tapping/milling to create a bleed screw that can be changed by opening up the filter housing.

It was a bit tricky as there isn't much room in there.  I had to drill and tap the hole, then mill in a bit of a recess......then also mill a bit off the top of the jet so that it doesn't hit the filter.  There isn't a lot of thickness in this area and I had to be careful not to mill off too much.

I removed the #120 jet and installed a #102 and went for a ride.  The oil pressure didn't change much.  At cruise I have 10 psi and at idle I have nothing.  In order to get the gauge to move off zero I need to have 2,000 rpm.

I suspect this 30 weight oil is just too thin once it warms up.  I will see if I can find a #40 weight break in oil.
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