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WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources) (Read 466 times)
Dave-Aus
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WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources)
12/14/12 at 23:16:29
 
So I received my savage as a chain drive (which requires a new chain and sprockets)

I have been toying with the idea of changing it back to belt, instead of buying new chain and sprockets.

What would I require to change it back?

- front pulley
- rear pulley
- lower belt guard (my bike only has upper chain guard ATM)
- obviously a belt
- anything else ?

Does anyone have any experience with both a chain and a belt driven savage who can give their opinion? I prefer the look and obvious less maintenance on the belt...
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« Last Edit: 12/15/12 at 18:58:38 by Oldfeller--FSO »  
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #1 - 12/15/12 at 02:51:31
 

At this stage you would be money ahead to buy another chain and the new sprockets.   $150 would fix you up with a primo X ring chain.

Even buying used you are going to drop a lot of money on pulleys and the belt itself isn't cheap by anybody's estimation. $180 for the belt by itself.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #2 - 12/15/12 at 02:57:11
 
I've tracked down a rear pulley, front pulley, and a belt (all used but from low KM 2006ish models) for around $150.00 - $200.00. i *think* that is all i would need??.

i'll need a new chain, front and rear sprockets, and will need to buy a chain breaker / riveter anyway. So cost isn't really here nor there. I'd expect around $300.00 at the end of the day.

Looking more so for opinions on the pros / cons of each option, money aside, as seems to be similar Smiley

cheers,
Dave

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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #3 - 12/15/12 at 03:06:39
 

I'm not familiar with pricing in your area, so my pricing ideas are likely off for you.  

But I bought a complete chain / sprockets setup (and still have it awaiting any spline issues that develop that require it) for $150 and that was both sprockets and an X ring chain.   Mine used a master link, so I required no chain breaker.

So, discussing pricing between USA and Australia/New Zealand are about like discussing available oil, some differences there that just don't go away.   Sounds like your prices are about 1.5 to 2x US prices.

Good news is the belt will last "forever" compared to chains, even good X ring chains only go 20,000 miles on average.  

Chains require lubrication and maintenance that the belt drive does not.   Chains also throw the speedo off, generally require an electronic unit be added for accurate speeds.  

Stock belt only has squeak issues and the fact you can't change a drive ratio at a whim like you can with a chain.

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« Last Edit: 12/15/12 at 04:06:43 by Oldfeller--FSO »  

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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #4 - 12/15/12 at 06:05:17
 
I toyed with the ideal of going chain but I decided that I didn't want to bother with chain maintenance. And I like the way the belt looks.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #5 - 12/15/12 at 06:34:19
 
I ran the chain conversion. Loved it. Brought the revs down at higher speeds. Didn't notice much difference on the low end....still plenty of grunt left. Best mod I ever did!
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #6 - 12/15/12 at 06:37:44
 
Which sprockets / chain did you use?

The chain conversion thread seems to have disappeared.

I believe it's just a 530 / 106 link chain , not sure which sprockets though:
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #7 - 12/15/12 at 06:50:04
 
Belts look dorky because, with the huge rear pulley, they are just so bulky.

On the other hand (and more importantly) belts are efficient, quiet, almost no maintenance, clean, reliable, light weight, cheap to manufacture, and last for-frickin-ever.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #8 - 12/15/12 at 10:43:35
 
Dave,

I honestly cannot remember. I do not have the bike. I just check in here every so often. See what everyone is up to. Best site ever for Savages.....have fun,

Jim














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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #9 - 12/15/12 at 11:58:25
 
Dave-Aus wrote on 12/15/12 at 06:37:44:
The chain conversion thread seems to have disappeared.
:


When the search function does not locate what you are looking for, then try the Tech Section.  There is an index, and it lists the posts by area part being worked on .  The Chain Thread is the section on the rear suspension I believe.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1174239333

I agree that the belt is kind of dorky looking - especially the way it makes the left shock mount stick so far out from the seat.  The belt does limit the gearing possibilities- but it is neat and tidy and very low maintenance.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #10 - 12/15/12 at 12:14:09
 
Efficiency is greater with chains - not worse - especially at higher speeds. Rubber flexing then straightening out as it goes around the pulleys generates a lot of heat - and that means power loss. Chains are jointed and don't create heat therefore they can transfer more power. That is their main (only?) advantage over belts and that's why they are still used in any aspect of racing over belts. If you are pretty bad with keeping up on your maintenance, stick with the belt.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #11 - 12/15/12 at 12:19:19
 
Cavi Mike wrote on 12/15/12 at 12:14:09:
Efficiency is greater with chains - not worse - especially at higher speeds. Rubber flexing then straightening out as it goes around the pulleys generates a lot of heat - and that means power loss. Chains are jointed and don't create heat therefore they can transfer more power. That is their main (only?) advantage over belts and that's why they are still used in any aspect of racing over belts. If you are pretty bad with keeping up on your maintenance, stick with the belt.


From all I have read, efficiency of belts and chains is about equal, and both are a bit more efficient than shafts. The real reason chains are used in racing is the ease of changing final drive ratios to match the track.

Belts have losses from hysteresis - the loss in the flexing of the rubber (really synthetic). Chains have losses because every time they flex entering a sprocket and straighten leaving, there is motion and friction in the bushings and there is viscous loss in the lubricant. Both have frictional losses from entering and leaving the teeth of the pulley/sprocket. Wilbur and Orville devised ways to measure chain losses for their Flyer, and as I remember they found chains to be about  95% efficient. Much less, and their airplane would not have flown.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #12 - 12/15/12 at 12:26:20
 
+1 charon

and efficiency numbers with chains are when they are new.
I read many statements were racers will change their chains every race because they see the hp losses at the track.

whereas there's no degradation with belts.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #13 - 12/15/12 at 13:56:41
 
And neither of you have made any actual counter-arguments to my statement.

FYI professional racers don't change their ratios during a race so speed of changes is a non-issue. Also, professional chains are crimped (no master link) so how exactly is breaking and crimping a new chain faster than swapping a belt? You'd already have a set of belts and pulleys or a set of chains and cogs if you were a racer so once again, non-issue. If belts were better, pros would use them instead. Marginal gains are still gains no matter what way you look at it and no matter how big of a word you use to describe it - ahem hysteresis - I already described that in my post so clearly you were trying to make yourself look smarter by using a physics term that nobody uses in the real world.
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Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #14 - 12/15/12 at 14:28:05
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/15/12 at 12:26:20:
+1 charon

and efficiency numbers with chains are when they are new.
I read many statements were racers will change their chains every race because they see the hp losses at the track.

O-ring chains are much more resistive than regular chains...

Anyway,.. I like the look of the belt...  
Adds beef to backend... Grin...
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