Home
Forum
Search
Login
Register
Merch
Donate
Welcome, Guest. Please
Login
or
Register
::
View Members
SuzukiSavage.com
›
General Category
›
Rubber Side Down!
› WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources)
(Moderators:
verslagen1
,
Dave
,
Serowbot
)
‹
Previous topic
|
Next topic
›
Pages:
1
2
3
WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources) (Read 466 times)
Dave-Aus
YaBB Newbies
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 22
WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources)
12/14/12 at 23:16:29
So I received my savage as a chain drive (which requires a new chain and sprockets)
I have been toying with the idea of changing it back to belt, instead of buying new chain and sprockets.
What would I require to change it back?
- front pulley
- rear pulley
- lower belt guard (my bike only has upper chain guard ATM)
- obviously a belt
- anything else ?
Does anyone have any experience with both a chain and a belt driven savage who can give their opinion? I prefer the look and obvious less maintenance on the belt...
Back to top
«
Last Edit: 12/15/12 at 18:58:38 by Oldfeller--FSO
»
IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
Offline
Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"
Posts: 12673
Fayetteville, NC
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #1 -
12/15/12 at 02:51:31
At this stage you would be money ahead to buy another chain and the new sprockets. $150 would fix you up with a primo X ring chain.
Even buying used you are going to drop a lot of money on pulleys and the belt itself isn't cheap by anybody's estimation. $180 for the belt by itself.
Back to top
Former Savage Owner
IP Logged
Dave-Aus
YaBB Newbies
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 22
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #2 -
12/15/12 at 02:57:11
I've tracked down a rear pulley, front pulley, and a belt (all used but from low KM 2006ish models) for around $150.00 - $200.00. i *think* that is all i would need??.
i'll need a new chain, front and rear sprockets, and will need to buy a chain breaker / riveter anyway. So cost isn't really here nor there. I'd expect around $300.00 at the end of the day.
Looking more so for opinions on the pros / cons of each option, money aside, as seems to be similar
cheers,
Dave
Back to top
IP Logged
Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper
ModSquad
Offline
Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"
Posts: 12673
Fayetteville, NC
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #3 -
12/15/12 at 03:06:39
I'm not familiar with pricing in your area, so my pricing ideas are likely off for you.
But I bought a complete chain / sprockets setup (and still have it awaiting any spline issues that develop that require it) for $150 and that was both sprockets and an X ring chain. Mine used a master link, so I required no chain breaker.
So, discussing pricing between USA and Australia/New Zealand are about like discussing available oil, some differences there that just don't go away. Sounds like your prices are about 1.5 to 2x US prices.
Good news is the belt will last "forever" compared to chains, even good X ring chains only go 20,000 miles on average.
Chains require lubrication and maintenance that the belt drive does not. Chains also throw the speedo off, generally require an electronic unit be added for accurate speeds.
Stock belt only has squeak issues and the fact you can't change a drive ratio at a whim like you can with a chain.
Back to top
«
Last Edit: 12/15/12 at 04:06:43 by Oldfeller--FSO
»
Former Savage Owner
IP Logged
clearush
Senior Member
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 261
Deer Park,TX
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #4 -
12/15/12 at 06:05:17
I toyed with the ideal of going chain but I decided that I didn't want to bother with chain maintenance. And I like the way the belt looks.
Back to top
IP Logged
clueless-FSO
Senior Member
Offline
Posts: 454
Birmingham, Al
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #5 -
12/15/12 at 06:34:19
I ran the chain conversion. Loved it. Brought the revs down at higher speeds. Didn't notice much difference on the low end....still plenty of grunt left. Best mod I ever did!
Back to top
'96 Black "bed liner" paint.. Ed_L forward controls, HD bars with 1"socket risers, 155 main, pod filter, HD exhaust, punched baffle, modded seat, chain drive conversion, slavy mod
one of a kind
IP Logged
Dave-Aus
YaBB Newbies
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 22
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #6 -
12/15/12 at 06:37:44
Which sprockets / chain did you use?
The chain conversion thread seems to have disappeared.
I believe it's just a 530 / 106 link chain , not sure which sprockets though:
Back to top
IP Logged
Gyrobob
Serious Thumper
Offline
Posers ain't
motorcyclists
Posts: 2571
Newnan, GA
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #7 -
12/15/12 at 06:50:04
Belts look dorky because, with the huge rear pulley, they are just so bulky.
On the other hand (and more importantly) belts are
efficient
,
quiet
,
almost no maintenance
, clean,
reliable
,
light weight
,
cheap to manufacture
, and
last for-frickin-ever
.
Back to top
If you think there's good in everyone, you haven't met everyone.
IP Logged
clueless-FSO
Senior Member
Offline
Posts: 454
Birmingham, Al
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #8 -
12/15/12 at 10:43:35
Dave,
I honestly cannot remember. I do not have the bike. I just check in here every so often. See what everyone is up to. Best site ever for Savages.....have fun,
Jim
Back to top
'96 Black "bed liner" paint.. Ed_L forward controls, HD bars with 1"socket risers, 155 main, pod filter, HD exhaust, punched baffle, modded seat, chain drive conversion, slavy mod
one of a kind
IP Logged
Dave
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
Offline
SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!
Posts: 18101
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #9 -
12/15/12 at 11:58:25
Dave-Aus wrote
on 12/15/12 at 06:37:44:
The chain conversion thread seems to have disappeared.
:
When the search function does not locate what you are looking for, then try the Tech Section. There is an index, and it lists the posts by area part being worked on . The Chain Thread is the section on the rear suspension I believe.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1174239333
I agree that the belt is kind of dorky looking - especially the way it makes the left shock mount stick so far out from the seat. The belt does limit the gearing possibilities- but it is neat and tidy and very low maintenance.
Back to top
Someday I will be old......But not today!
IP Logged
Cavi Mike
Serious Thumper
Offline
Thumper n00b
Posts: 1005
Rochester, NY
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #10 -
12/15/12 at 12:14:09
Efficiency is greater with chains - not worse - especially at higher speeds. Rubber flexing then straightening out as it goes around the pulleys generates a lot of heat - and that means power loss. Chains are jointed and don't create heat therefore they can transfer more power. That is their main (only?) advantage over belts and that's why they are still used in any aspect of racing over belts. If you are pretty bad with keeping up on your maintenance, stick with the belt.
Back to top
IP Logged
Charon
Serious Thumper
Offline
Posts: 1811
Harvard, NE
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #11 -
12/15/12 at 12:19:19
Cavi Mike wrote
on 12/15/12 at 12:14:09:
Efficiency is greater with chains - not worse - especially at higher speeds. Rubber flexing then straightening out as it goes around the pulleys generates a lot of heat - and that means power loss. Chains are jointed and don't create heat therefore they can transfer more power. That is their main (only?) advantage over belts and that's why they are still used in any aspect of racing over belts. If you are pretty bad with keeping up on your maintenance, stick with the belt.
From all I have read, efficiency of belts and chains is about equal, and both are a bit more efficient than shafts. The real reason chains are used in racing is the ease of changing final drive ratios to match the track.
Belts have losses from hysteresis - the loss in the flexing of the rubber (really synthetic). Chains have losses because every time they flex entering a sprocket and straighten leaving, there is motion and friction in the bushings and there is viscous loss in the lubricant. Both have frictional losses from entering and leaving the teeth of the pulley/sprocket. Wilbur and Orville devised ways to measure chain losses for their Flyer, and as I remember they found chains to be about 95% efficient. Much less, and their airplane would not have flown.
Back to top
Eschew obfuscation.
IP Logged
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
Online
Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.
Posts: 28889
L.A. California
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #12 -
12/15/12 at 12:26:20
+1 charon
and efficiency numbers with chains are when they are new.
I read many statements were racers will change their chains every race because they see the hp losses at the track.
whereas there's no degradation with belts.
Back to top
Versey's Place
Tech Section Index
IP Logged
Cavi Mike
Serious Thumper
Offline
Thumper n00b
Posts: 1005
Rochester, NY
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #13 -
12/15/12 at 13:56:41
And neither of you have made any actual counter-arguments to my statement.
FYI professional racers don't change their ratios during a race so speed of changes is a non-issue. Also, professional chains are crimped (no master link) so how exactly is breaking and crimping a new chain faster than swapping a belt? You'd already have a set of belts and pulleys or a set of chains and cogs if you were a racer so once again, non-issue. If belts were better, pros would use them instead. Marginal gains are still gains no matter what way you look at it and no matter how big of a word you use to describe it - ahem hysteresis - I already described that in my post so clearly you were trying to make yourself look smarter by using a physics term that nobody uses in the real world.
Back to top
IP Logged
Serowbot
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
Offline
OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?
Posts: 28674
Tucson Az
Gender:
Re: Opinions on Belt vs. Chain
Reply #14 -
12/15/12 at 14:28:05
verslagen1 wrote
on 12/15/12 at 12:26:20:
+1 charon
and efficiency numbers with chains are when they are new.
I read many statements were racers will change their chains every race because they see the hp losses at the track.
O-ring chains are much more resistive than regular chains...
Anyway,.. I like the look of the belt...
Adds beef to backend...
...
Back to top
Ludicrous Speed !... ...
...
IP Logged
Pages:
1
2
3
‹
Previous topic
|
Next topic
›
Forum Jump »
» 10 most recent posts
» 10 most recent topics
General Category
»» Rubber Side Down!
- Technical Documents/Reference
- The Marketplace
- The Cafe
- Politics, Religion (Tall Table)
- Forum Upgrade Issues / Tests
« Home
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
10/02/24 at 07:23:19
›
General Category
›
Rubber Side Down!
› WAR -- Belt vs. Chain (facts & sources)
SuzukiSavage.com
» Powered by
YaBB 2.2
!
YaBB
© 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.