SuzukiSavage.com - Starting without decompressor ?

David

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Starting without decompressor ?
12/09/12 at 16:20:15

I have just finished building a RYCA kit with the mechanical decompressor conversion. When I had the build finished I had the bike up on blocks so started it standing at the right side without using the mechanical decompressor. Bike started almost immediately no problem. I understand the electric solenoid system kicks out as soon as the bike starts cranking. Not wanting to hold the mechanical decompressor for too long adn do not know how to judge this. If the bike starts OK without the decompressor being used will this cause any damage?
Thanks in advance for any advice

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28677 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #1 - 12/09/12 at 17:02:10 No problem,... If yer' battery is weak,.. or if you catch the engine on the compression stroke, it may need the decomp.. it only needs to engage long enough to get over that compression cycle... Blip!... ...
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Boofer Serious Thumper Offline Nearly too old. Posts: 1760 N Ms Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #2 - 12/09/12 at 19:27:23 I don't argue with Serowbot, 'cause he has special powers now. However I scroll through Bike Bandit parts prices occassionally and I wouldn't want to put any extra strain on the starter. I don't know if I'm right but I do want to be safe on this one. What ya' think guys?
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28889 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #3 - 12/09/12 at 19:55:50 on early bikes i think the gears are weak, and some have popped a few teeth off. probably due to kick back but that's a guess.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28677 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #4 - 12/09/12 at 22:30:37 Boofer wrote on 12/09/12 at 19:27:23: I don't argue with Serowbot, 'cause he has special powers now. Yes,.. I was granted super powers... Turns out, you don't get to pick... I can now, see through my eyelids,... understand cats (they're really boring),.. and do origami with my toes.... Not,.. what I expected... ...
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Dave

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #5 - 12/10/12 at 05:22:41

I am guessing that Suzuki would not be installing a decompressor if it was not needed.......somewhere/sometime.

Based on the fact that severel people have been able to start their bikes without the decompressor on a regular basis.....they must not be exploring the conditions that Suzuki designed it for. Maybe if your bike sits outside in really cold weather, the decompressor is needed when the battery is weak, and the oil is thick, and the piston is on the compression stroke when you hit the button.

It may be that if you only ride in warmish weather and keep your battery in good shape - you can get by without having the decompressor.

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« Last Edit: 12/10/12 at 06:27:04 by Dave »

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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #6 - 12/10/12 at 05:30:12 Is it really that difficult to push a little lever every time you start the bike? Seems like a pretty simple thing to do when compared to replacing a burned up starter. I'm also not sure what "holding the decompressor for too long" even means.
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arteacher Serious Thumper Offline Ride as if your naked and invisable! Posts: 2581 London ontario Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #7 - 12/10/12 at 07:09:21 Is there any simple reliable way to determine whether or not the piston is on the compression stroke?
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verslagen1

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #8 - 12/10/12 at 07:13:36

With the only reports of burned up starters coming from newbs or new owners... overheating the starter appears to be more of an issue with holding the button too long rather than strain.

The only other concern I would have is with the older bikes (pre 95)
as there were a few issues of broken teeth that I haven't heard for a long time. But I believe these were more likely from kickback than starting.

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verslagen1

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #9 - 12/10/12 at 07:19:53

arteacher wrote on 12/10/12 at 07:09:21:

Is there any simple reliable way to determine whether or not the piston is on the compression stroke?

The only easy way that I know of (ie no wrench involved) w/o out pushing the button... is to flip the decomp lever. If you can do it easily, then you're on the exhaust stroke. Put the bike in a high gear and bump it forward till you can operate the lever, then you're good to go for a bump start. Don't push it backward as you'll engage the starter clutch and on early bike is a recipy for a busted starter mount.

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Gyrobob

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #10 - 12/10/12 at 07:37:39

Cavi Mike wrote on 12/10/12 at 05:30:12:

Is it really that difficult to push a little lever every time you start the bike? Seems like a pretty simple thing to do when compared to replacing a burned up starter. I'm also not sure what "holding the decompressor for too long" even means.

Good point.

Also, if holding the decompressor too long means holding the exhaust valve lifter too long, then that won't hurt anything,.. it just means the motor won't start until you let go.

Another point: The "decompressor" lever is a handy way to shut the motor off when you stop without making a "pow" after the ignition is off.

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David YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 14	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #11 - 12/10/12 at 16:46:45 Thanks to everyone for the tips. The other reason for the question is the RYCA foot operated system is a bit of a PTA. I am going to make a handlebar mounted cable system. Only problem is finding a 1" bar decompressor lever for a reasonable price is a hassle. 7/8" bar levers are easy to find.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28677 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Starting without decompressor ? Reply #12 - 12/10/12 at 17:58:59 Search ebay,.. not just for decomp levers... Search... magneto, choke, thumb throttle, and bicycle shift, levers... ... I'm thinking of canning mine, too... I might try a lever right at the head... brass if I can find some...
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Dave

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #13 - 12/10/12 at 18:27:01

A Hot Start lever might work - if the bolt holes are spaced properly.

Here is one from Motorcycle Superstore:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/192/45249/ITEM/Pro-Taper-Hotstart-As...

Here is another one that is more expensive:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/10/210/15584/DPITEM/Dirt-Bike-Motocros...

Ebay also has some from motocross bikes like the Honda CRF bikes that bolts on top of the clutch lever pivot by using a longer bolt and a spacer - we would just have to figure out a way to mount the cable sheath - you could cut the one of the Honda perch and have it welded onto your perch.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-HONDA-CRF250R-CRF250-CRF-250-CLUTCH-PERCH-LEVER-...

UPDATE: Last night I measured a CRF 250 Honda front brake lever perch and the bolt spacing was 32mm. Our LS650 brake lever bolt spacing is 35mm. To make the Hot Start levers work, we would have to file each hole out 1mm wider, and then open up the the bracket to fit the 1" diam. bars, as they are built for 7/8" bars. It is doable.....

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« Last Edit: 12/11/12 at 05:04:27 by Dave »

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David

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Re: Starting without decompressor ?
Reply #14 - 12/11/12 at 15:03:17

Found a reproduction english decompressor on Aust ebay
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/200541429803?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p398...
Is 7/8" but supplier says could be made OK for 1" ( no guarantee) Only $23.00 so taking the punt. Will need to grind the saddle on the main body and probably make a new clamp saddle - use a scrap of aluminium and polish or cut up a spare brake / clutch lever. I have some spare cables hanging around but will need to shorten one - will buy a solderless ( screw type ) nipple for the cut end or go to a local rigging shop and have an eye pressed for the head lever connection. Will post pictures if it works out OK

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