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Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring? (Read 522 times)
Charon
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #30 - 11/25/12 at 09:01:19
 
Just for additional information: I used to have a 1983 Suzuki GR650 Tempter. It "backfired" and popped just like the Savage/S40. But it wasn't a thumper - it was a twin. The dealership "adjusted" it to eliminate the afterfire, but was unsuccessful. I mention this only to point out that it isn't only Suzuki's singles that afterfire. The most successful solution I have found is also the simplest: earplugs.
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LANCER
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #31 - 11/26/12 at 03:55:35
 
Your carb has been apart twice by the mechanic and it looked good to him, but did he run the carb cleaning tool through all the jets and every passageway ?
The carb cleaning tool is a little kit if speciality wires made for the very purpose of running through jets and passageways, which at times is the only way of clearing them of built up carbon, grit and fuel residue.  There is no way to eyeball those passageways, you must run them with the wire.  If your mechanic did not do that then he did not complete the job of cleaning the carb.

It is a fallacy that a big single is destined to backfire simply because it is a big single.  Do you think the owner of a BMW 650 would be satisfied with that answer from a dealer ? Or KTM or Honda 650 owner ?  Nope.
They do have fuel infection systems but that is just a better version of a basic carb.  If their FI system malfunctioned do you think they would backfire ?  Yep.  And would the dealer simply pass it off as "it is just the nature of a big single" ?  Not if they want to keep their business.  They would fix it.  
We are such a small portion of the market that many Suzuki dealers just blow us off because they do not care or because their mech's no longer know how a carb works and how to fix them.
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DavidOfMA
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #32 - 11/26/12 at 05:11:36
 
Thanks.  I don't know if the mechanic at the dealership actually cleaned the TEV or just eyeballed it. I'll get a carb cleaning tool (there's a link here somewhere) and when I have had more practice with carbs (by cleaning the spare carb I have), I'll tackle this one and see if I can resolve the issue by cleaning the carb as  you suggest. If not, then at least I know it's not the carb.
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #33 - 11/26/12 at 05:46:15
 
DavidOfMA wrote on 11/26/12 at 05:11:36:
Thanks.  I don't know if the mechanic at the dealership actually cleaned the TEV or just eyeballed it. I'll get a carb cleaning tool (there's a link here somewhere) and when I have had more practice with carbs (by cleaning the spare carb I have), I'll tackle this one and see if I can resolve the issue by cleaning the carb as  you suggest. If not, then at least I know it's not the carb.


While you have the carb apart on the bench, keep everything on a perfectly clean surface,... pretend you are doing brain surgery or something.  
-- I used to use a towel, but a t-shirt works better because t-shirt material has very little lint compared to terry cloth.  One bit of lint trapped in a jet will add a lot of frustration.
-- Doing everything on a large cloth also helps to keep small pieces in front of you, rather than bouncing and rolling into black holes, never to be seen again.

Another way to get inner surfaces of complicated mechanical devices (carbs, for example) clean internally is to do it ultrasonically.  These gadgets are cheap now, and can be used for all kinds of things besides carbs.  I use mine for cartridges cases, gun parts, jewelry, dirty switches, piles of small fasteners, glasses, etc.  Here's a newer version of the one I bought a long time ago, and it is on sale at the moment:

http://www.harborfreight.com/25-liter-ultrasonic-cleaner-95563.html
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #34 - 11/26/12 at 05:51:03
 
They'll knock a kidney stone out of a Guinea Pig,
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #35 - 11/26/12 at 05:57:50
 
LANCER wrote on 11/26/12 at 03:55:35:
It is a fallacy that a big single is destined to backfire simply because it is a big single.  


Exactly.  Every cylinder on every motorcycle of any type ridden by those viewing this discourse has a carb, cylinder head, exhaust header, and muffler.  (this statement excludes FI systems)  
-- Single, twin, triple, four, or six cylinders makes no diff.  
-- It's just more noticeable on an LS650 because of the size of of the cylinder involved, and, since it has but a single cylinder, the burbles and pops seem more dramatic because of the time between exhaust pulses.
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #36 - 11/26/12 at 06:25:25
 
Heres a prediction,..........
You are going to keep messin w/ that carb....that there isn't anything wrong w/ untill you get it so screwed up you will end up forced to buy a new one. Many have !
If you can't simply learn to control backfire w/ the throttle, you have the wrong motorcycle,.....believe it !
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Rich
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Charon
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #37 - 11/26/12 at 06:48:25
 
This might be slightly off-topic, but it involves a single and afterfiring. I have a Yamaha Majesty scooter, 400 cc single, fuel injected. When I took it to the Rocky Mountain Park earlier this year, I noticed at high altitude it also would afterfire and "grumble" on deceleration. I didn't happen to notice the altitude at which it started happening, but I am guessing above 8000 feet. I started browsing through its service manual, and it has an air injection system which injects air into the exhaust very near the engine any time the pressure in the exhaust goes negative (below ambient) with the idea of burning any unburnt hydrocarbons in the exhaust. I can only speculate that at high altitude the pressure differences were small enough the air injection didn't work, and the resultant unburned stuff could afterfire. The LS650 has no such injection system (and if it did folks would complain and remove it), so has no way to avoid the afterfire.
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LANCER
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #38 - 11/27/12 at 04:02:22
 
DavidOfMA wrote on 11/26/12 at 05:11:36:
Thanks.  I don't know if the mechanic at the dealership actually cleaned the TEV or just eyeballed it. I'll get a carb cleaning tool (there's a link here somewhere) and when I have had more practice with carbs (by cleaning the spare carb I have), I'll tackle this one and see if I can resolve the issue by cleaning the carb as  you suggest. If not, then at least I know it's not the carb.



The carb cleaning wire tool is available from Sudco (323-728-5407) part #950-203 for $10.50
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DavidOfMA
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #39 - 11/27/12 at 07:13:42
 
Quote:
The carb cleaning wire tool is available from Sudco (323-728-5407) part #950-203 for $10.50


Thanks!
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DavidOfMA
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #40 - 11/27/12 at 07:15:18
 
Routy wrote on 11/26/12 at 06:25:25:
Heres a prediction,..........
You are going to keep messin w/ that carb....that there isn't anything wrong w/ untill you get it so screwed up you will end up forced to buy a new one. Many have !
If you can't simply learn to control backfire w/ the throttle, you have the wrong motorcycle,.....believe it !


That's why I got a spare carb to experiment with, so I know what I'm doing when I open up the "real" carb which, since it's been taken apart and put back together by the shop, should not be hard to dissassemble and reassemble. If I know it's fine, then I'll learn to live with the backfring, but at the moment I don't know that.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #41 - 11/27/12 at 09:31:52
 
Man,, I wanna see the tool, but IM not loadin that whole catalog over it..
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verslagen1
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #42 - 11/27/12 at 09:56:43
 
K&L carb cleaner wire set

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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #43 - 11/27/12 at 11:15:19
 
KInda sorta looks like a cuttin torch tool.

I have a selection of fine wire, NO, Not Wine, Wire,, & can generally find what I need just layin in the shop, on a shelf, by the radio. Some are pointed, some blunt. A trip to the hobby shop for what they call Control Rod , or PIano Wire,, Great stuff, so hard it can break if bent too far too quickly, & heating it & letting it cool slowly only makes it more brittle,,
I havent tried a quench to anneal step, one day I may need to. Heck,, Im just gonna, today,, I have a small torch I use for soldering thatll do it,,

Anyway, that stuff comes in sizes smaller than a straight pin,or up to approaching 1/4",, 3 foot lengths, great stuff to have in a shop.,

$10.00 worth would get an assortment that'd surely cover the needs of carb passeges & youd have stuff long enough left over for projects.
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DavidOfMA
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Re: Next step in trying to eliminate backfiring?
Reply #44 - 11/27/12 at 11:59:31
 
True. But the carb kit wires are knurled, may be more effective and less likely to scratch. Found in Amazon for $11 including shipping.
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