Im waitin on Bammy to address those who have LOST their homes..


"Uhh,, I dunno if you folks know this or not,, BUt you didnt Lose your home all by yourself. Government policy made that happen."..

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/17/12 at 18:28:46:



Correction JOG ... very small correction ...

BUt you didnt Lose your home all by yourself. Government policy - of the Bushies who were eager to be re-elected and didn't want to be the 2 recession president inflating a house bubble via loose and indiscriminate credit - made that happen

Cool.
Srinath.

"How is having to pay too much for maintaining ones health (Basic human need) a freedom? How is putting a middle man (Insurance) a freedom? How is worrying about ones health, not being able to afford simple checkups a freedom?  Sorry I don't see the corelation.. Why should everything we do be for profit? It sure doesn't smack of freedom"...    
 
You just can't reason with people who lack the ability to think reasonably.

When you have middle class Americans fighting for the right of millionaires to pay a lower tax rate than they do, coming at the expense of their children's education.

And when you have middle class Americans fighting for the right to have insurance companies decide their life and death medical needs based on their profit margins.

You have to ask yourself; what type of society do these people want to live in? Lord of the Flies?

How is having to pay too much for maintaining ones health (Basic human need) a freedom? How is putting a middle man (Insurance) a freedom? How is worrying about ones health, not being able to afford simple checkups a freedom? Sorry I don't see the corelation.. Why should everything we do be for profit? It sure doesn't smack of freedom...

The answer to your question why is profit is important is too simply look around you. The United States of America for the past 200 years has been the culture with the most individual freedoms available to their citizens. Why is it the US took hold and literally zoomed past the rest of the world in innovation and technology? We have no more or less natural resources than the rest of the world.

The US economy quite literally has ruled the world for the past 100 years of so. The GDP of the US dwarfs every other nation. I would include China in this as China’s wealth is so clustered in government. Their wealth does not make it down to citizens because of their lack of  individual freedom.

And it’s been the presence of this individual freedom over our history that have allowed people to work and earn what their talents and drive allow them to. Communes and ‘Walden Pond’ communities always, always fail. Communism fails, always.

A drive for profit maximizes productivity and the result is an abundance of goods and services. Take that profit incentive away, and the quality and quantity of those goods and services drops off. Why did USSR fail? Why was there such poverty? Lack of individual freedom tramped down the desire to work hard which resulted in no growth or innovation. In the end, it was money that ended the cold war. With no private growth, no funds existed for their leaders to match innovation.

I know it’s not popular to tout the value of profit. I know it’s doesn’t leave you with a warm, fuzzy feeling. Instead, it seems to leave people today with bitterness and envy. All I can say is removing the incentive for the people who dream big carries consequences that are unimaginable. It’s not perfect and human nature being what it is, there are those who take advantage of others, but capitalism has delivered the highest standard of living this planet has ever seen. I for one will take the downsides in stride. I would not change places with anyone, I’m blessed to be in the US and I want my kids and grand kids to have the same opportunities.

Sorry for the rant, but I can't see biting the hand that has fed you all these years. Anyone arguing that capitalism has not provided the world the opportunity to be a better place is a fool.

You said a mouthful there, steve

Part 1 of 2

The Parable of the Water Tank

In 1897, Edward Bellamy published The Parable of the Water Tank, one of the most prophetic short stories of its time. This satirical assault on the perceived evils of capitalism exposes the devastating impact of corporate greed and attacks the dominant corporate miserliness which enslaves and immobilizes a people. Bellamy’s visionary onslaught came before the Great Depression, before the monopolization of industries, and before any real understanding of corporate power. Today, as globalization widens the chasm between excess and poverty, Bellamy’s stirring words ring through as a timeless and universal message to the world.

By Edward Bellamy

(Originally published in the book Equality in 1897)

There was once a very dry land, called Root, where the lives of all the people were daily focused on their need to collect water. In Root, there were no lakes or rivers, but there were widely scattered oases, where stands of palm trees grew, surrounded by grass and flowers. In some of these oases there were springs where cool, fresh water would flow onto the surface, and collect into shallow ponds. Each day, the people of Root would walk to the nearest spring, often miles away, to collect the water that they would need for the day's drink, and cooking, and washing. Some days, the flow of water in the springs was low, and the people who came to collect water were many, so that some who walked to the spring had to return home with only a few sips for their spouses and children and their elderly parents.

Once, a man of Root went to an oasis to collect his daily water, but he found that day that no water poured forth from the spring. In desperate need, he considered that, since water usually flowed at this place, that it must come from a source under the ground. With this thought in mind, he took a shovel, and began to dig. After hours passed in his labors, he eventually reached an underground river, which had been the source of the spring. He lowered his bucket into the river that he had discovered, and drank deeply.

Many other people had come that day to the oasis, and most had returned home empty-handed. Some were still present when the digger reached water, and they ran over in delight, and attempted to fill their buckets. The man who had dug the well was angered, and beat them off with his shovel. “I have water because I alone dug this well!” he shouted. “Do you think that you can just come over and take what I have produced?”

One in the crowd called back: “We are poor and have little, but we must have water, or we will die. I have two pennies only, but I will give these to you for one bucket of water.” The man who had dug the well agreed, and offered the same exchange to all others. Those who had two pennies paid, and filled their buckets. Those who had no pennies returned home with their buckets empty.

The man who had dug the well realized that owning it set him apart from all the other people of Root. To maintain his distinction, he built walls around the well to keep all others out, so that they could get water from it only if they paid him the two pennies. And this man became rich from the pennies he collected, and he became known as the capitalist.

Other men of Root soon heard what had happened at this oasis, and were inspired by the good fortune of the capitalist. They set out to each of the other oases, where the people of Root who had no pennies went for water. They each dug wells, and diverted the underground rivers so that water no longer flowed into the public springs. They built fences around their wells, so that none could take water without their permission, and they gave water only to those who would pay them. And they all became known as capitalists.

But the people of Root were thirsty and poor, and soon few had pennies, and they begged the capitalists to give them water. But the capitalists said: “We cannot do that, because then we would become as poor as you are, and we would perish with you. But if you will be our servants, we will provide you with water.”

And so it happened that the people of Root became the servants of the capitalists. The capitalists ordered their servants into teams with supervisors and managers. Some they put at the wells to dip, and others they made to build water wheels, and some to search for new springs. Some of the people were hired to build a tank in the center of town to hold the water, and this tank was called the Market. And the capitalists said to the people:

“For every bucket of water that you take from our wells and bring to us, and pour into the Market, we will pay you a penny. You may then buy water from the tank, for you and your families to drink and cook and wash, for two pennies a bucket. The difference shall be our profit. If it were not for this profit we would not do this for you, and you would all perish.”

The people of Root were happy that the capitalists had solved the perennial shortage of water, and glad for the work by which they earned the money to buy it. They diligently brought water to the tank every day, and for every bucket they brought, the capitalists paid them a penny. But for every bucket of water that the capitalists drew from the market to give to the people, the people gave the capitalists two pennies.

After many days, the Market overflowed, as for every bucket they poured in, they received only enough to buy half a bucket. Because of the excess that was left to every bucket, the Market overflowed. The people were many and the capitalists were few, and could drink no more than the others.

And when the capitalists saw the Market overflow, they told the people to bring no more water until the Market was empty. But when the people could no longer earn pennies from the capitalists for the buckets of water they brought, they could not buy water from the Market. And when the capitalists saw that they had no more profit, because no man bought water from them, they were troubled. They decided that they had to advertise, and sent forth men to cry: “If any thirst, let him come to the Market and buy water from us.”

But the people answered: “How can we buy unless you hire us, so that we may earn money? Hire us, as before, and we will buy water, because we are thirsty, and you will have no need to advertise.”

The capitalists replied: “Shall we hire you to bring water, when the Market is already overflowing? First you have to buy the water, and when the tank is empty, then we will hire you again.”

And so the people did not work, and because they did not work, they could not buy, and minstrels reported abroad that Root was in crisis. The people thirsted as never before, because they could not collect water at the oases, as their fathers had done. The capitalists had taken all the springs, and the wells, and the water-wheels, and the buckets, so that no man could get water except from the Market. The people begged the capitalists: “The tank is overflowing! Please give us water, so that we don't die!”

But the capitalists answered: “The water is ours. If you want it, you have to buy it.” And they confirmed this with an oath to each other, saying “business is business.” But the capitalists were worried, because they sold so little water. They said: “Our profits have stopped our profits. Because of the profits we've made, we can't make any more profits! How is it that our profits have become unprofitable, and our gains now make us poor? We must send for the soothsayers to interpret this to us.”

And the soothsayers had several explanations. One blamed it on overproduction, another on the failure of the people of Root to save their pay, and yet another on lack of confidence. When the capitalists sent the soothsayers to the people, the soothsayers told them that now they must thirst, because there was too much water. But the people became angry, and chased the soothsayers away with stones, and cried out: “Do you mock us? Does plenty bring famine? Does nothing come of much?”

When the capitalists saw this anger, they were afraid that the people might storm the water tank. So they sent their holy men, who were false priests, to calm the crowd. The false priests told the people that their thirst was an affliction from God to test their souls, that they should bear it in patience and not trouble the capitalists. Then they proved the capitalists' generosity by going to the Market, and wetting their fingertips in the overflow, and scattering the drops upon the people who thronged the tank. The drops of water were called Charity, and they were bitter. But the crowd raged even more than before.

Since both the soothsayers and the false priests had failed to calm the people of Root, the capitalists next called upon all who had skill in war. “If you will guard our tanks, then we will pay you money, so that you may buy water for yourselves and your families,” the capitalists told them. And the men of war were persuaded by their thirst, and took their swords into their hands, and struck down the people who thronged to the tank.

In the following days, the capitalists made fountains and fish ponds and flower gardens, and they bathed in the water with their wives and children, and wasted the water for their pleasure. When the Market was empty, they proclaimed: “The crisis is ended!” They hired the people again to bring water from the wells to the Market, and paid them as before a penny for every bucket. But for every bucket that was taken from the tank, the capitalists received two pennies. And so, after a time, the Market once again overflowed, and once again the word was spread that there was a crisis.

Time and again, the tank overflowed, and the people of Root thirsted. And when, after suffering their agony, the Market was empty, the people of Root could once again buy the water they needed. And the recurrent overflowing and emptying of the water tank was called the Cycles of the Market.

After many Cycles of the Market, there arose in the land certain men who were called agitators, because they stirred up the people. And the agitators told the people that they should associate, and then they would have no need to be servants of the capitalists, and would no longer thirst.

The agitators asked the people: “Why can you not buy water from the Market? Because you have no money. Why do you have no money? Because for every bucket you put into the Market you receive one penny, but for every bucket you take from the Market you must pay two pennies, so that the capitalist must have his profit. So the tank must overflow, being filled by your lack, and made to abound out of your emptiness. Do you not see, that the harder you work, and the more diligently you bring the water, the worse off you will be, and not the better? And that this is so because of the system of profit, which will keep the people of Root poor forever?”

Just a few years ago, a powerful ideology - the belief in free and unfettered markets - brought the world to the brink of ruin. Even in its hey-day, from the early 1980s until 2007, US-style deregulated capitalism brought greater material well-being only to the very richest in the richest country of the world.

Indeed, over the course of this ideology's 30-year ascendance, most Americans saw their incomes decline or stagnate year after year.

Moreover, output growth in the United States was not economically sustainable. With so much of US national income going to so few, growth could continue only through consumption financed by a mounting pile of debt.

<snip>

Every time one starts to feel generous and forgiving towards the
other side, the depraved and cruel people in the world do something
to stir up the anger and the cycle continues. At least that’s the
way it feels. In 2008 many people felt optimistic about the future
because we elected the ‘anti-Bush’ and it looked as though we were
going to move in a smarter and more compassionate direction as a
country. That was followed immediately by the people who supported
the illegal war, deregulation and deficit exploding tax cuts that
put the country on the road to depression, yelling and screaming,
throwing things at the ill and blaming everyone but themselves for
the problems they created. Now the country has moved in a more
progressive direction once again, followed immediately by the worst
of us, let’s call them Teabaggers for the time being, defending the
indefensible. Papa John’s pizza, owned by the obscenely rich, greedy
and ostentatious John Schnatter who has a turntable for his
limousines, a castle-like mansion, his own golf course and a moat-
like structure surrounding his castle. According to a Forbes study,
Schnatter could supply health care to his employees by adding a
nickel to the cost of his pizzas and not have to cut back at all on
his King Herod life style. He refuses. He’s not alone by any means.
The CEO of Wal-Mart, Michael Duke, makes more in an hour than many of
his employees make in a year. Those employees are paid such low
wages that taxpayers are forced to help feed them and pay for their
health care. The list goes on and on. This should be a cause for
outrage as it is not only morally reprehensible, but moronically
self-destructive. Yet these Teabaggers defend the practice with the
zeal and self-righteousness usually reserved for religious fanatics.

Teabaggers, or more accurately their ideological forebears, have
always been with us. And they have always been an anchor on society.
Freeing the slaves was followed quickly by the formation of the KKK
and Jim Crow laws. (Yes, the degrees are different, but the thought
processes behind the deeds are the same.) The Renaissance kicked the
already in progress Inquisition into high gear. Martin Luther King
preached peace and fairness and was killed for his efforts. There
have always been people willing to champion sadistic and ludicrous
causes, the monikers assigned to these people may change with the
times, but the desire to punish others, even if it means making
things worse for themselves, remains a constant. And while it may be
true that many of these people may not be technically stupid in the
conventional sense of the word, their actions and words are identical
to those with less brain power and the same ideals. It’s possible that some of the people suppressing the vote in the latest election were not bigots, but outside of their immediate circle of family and friends, who cares? Same results, no matter what their motives. The same goes for those now espousing policies that keep millions of working Americans in poverty. Are they stupid or evil ideologues? Again, who cares? The burden of proof should not be, and really cannot be, on the observer to ferret out what’s in the heart or head of a stranger. Whether one advocates destructive policies because of not understanding what is truly at issue, or because one’s beliefs and ideology prevent that understanding, is irrelevant. Practically, the results are the same.

Right now the four hundred richest people in the US control as much
wealth as the bottom one hundred and fifty million. On average, each
person in that top group has as much wealth as one hundred million, five
hundred thousand people in the bottom 50% of the country’s economy.
In 1960 the average CEO made as much as forty people in his employ.
Now, depending on the source used, the average CEO makes up to four
hundred times those in his or her employ. Add to that 92% of the wealth
from our current recovery has gone to 1% of the population. As the
richest have taken more and more of the country’s wealth, the middle
class is continuing to shrink. Forty years ago one blue collar job
could support a family of five, have two cars, health care, a yearly
vacation and a pension that allowed for a retirement at sixty-five.
That is now hard to accomplish with two incomes. The trend is
obvious and it doesn’t bode well for the country. No one looks at a
third-world country with a handful of obscenely wealthy people and
millions of poor with no middle class and says, “Wow, they are doing
great. Our county should emulate their success.” Millions of people
within our borders defending and supporting policies that push our
country toward a third-world country life-style, is far more
dangerous than a few score fanatics thousands of miles away.

One Teabagger on a Facebook thread about Michael Duke’s salary said, “So what. Nothing wrong with that. They should get better jobs…Go Occupy something.” One on the Papa John’s page suggested posting pictures of those fired ‘so we could laugh at them.’ The issue isn’t with one or two maggots, it’s about millions who feel helping fellow Americans, even an iota, is now somehow un-American. They have taken the ‘us versus them’ to an extreme and it needs to stop.

All over the US Teabaggers are backing billionaires over workers, no
matter how outrageous the take is for the billionaires or how
insignificant the dent is to their incomes, when even the smallest
concession would mean the difference between living in a small
apartment or living in a vehicle. They aren’t just being bad human
beings with no compassion, they are also being bad citizens of a
country they give constant lip service to loving - every chance they get.

WebsterMark wrote on 11/18/12 at 06:17:27:

Thge goverment isnt building the roads anymore, its private contractors. You should know that. The goverment is just paying the bill for substandard workmanship never completed on time. When the State built the roads it was better work and completed on time!. Had you rather have Blackwater and Haliburton defending you or the US Goverment? Some people working for our goverment actually care about this country. Its a well known fact that the capitalistic corporations and their senior officers try to sh!t the goverment and the country out of everything they can.  Pubs couldnt find someone to run for president without secret foreign offshore accounts who cheated on his taxes. Then the two faced basturd had the nerve to call me a moocher. Thats pathetic!!!!! Now the Sons Of Bitchis have sh!t me out of my twinkies and blaming it on the unions. I'm really pissed!