SuzukiSavage.com - 6 new bikes from Honda

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #15 - 11/14/12 at 19:15:45

Charon wrote on 11/14/12 at 19:12:28:

I believe ABS and linked brakes should be MANDATORY on all motorcycles and scooters, regardless of displacement. The reason is simple - motorcycles fall down when riders make mistakes and lock wheels. That should not be possible, and the technology exists to prevent it. In particular, when riders panic and stomp the brake pedal, exactly as they do in their cars, the machine should apply full braking power on both wheels, with ABS.

There is also a downside to ABS (besides cost), can you guess what it is? Think about it.

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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: 6 new bikes from Honda Reply #16 - 11/14/12 at 19:21:34 Mandatory? What are you, my nanny? If you don't have the skill to control your brakes, you shouldn't be riding. You have no right to force your ineptitude on me and the rest of the world.
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Charon

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #17 - 11/14/12 at 19:33:12

Yes, MANDATORY. Even very accomplished and experienced riders sometimes make mistakes and stomp the rear brake when faced with an emergency stop. That mistake should not cause them to go down. Remember too, if the brakes are used "properly" the ABS will rarely intervene.

I can think of at least one or two possible downsides to ABS, besides expense. One, on dirt or gravel, it will sometimes increase stopping distances. Another and more arguable, it will not allow a rider to become "experienced" by finding out what a locked brake feels like. Another, more technical, is that making an ABS work reliably at speeds of walking or slower is quite difficult. Another yet, it cannot react to the forces involved in cornering. Did I miss some?

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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: 6 new bikes from Honda Reply #18 - 11/14/12 at 21:05:21 I wish Triumph would build a 500 Twin. The CB500f might be as close as it ever gets. Its taken awhile but maybe they've finally figured out you dont have to have 100 HP to have fun.
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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: 6 new bikes from Honda Reply #19 - 11/15/12 at 01:39:54 I can't stand people like you Charon that try to force your beliefs on other people. Go knock on someone else's door and preach your garbage. You have no right to tell me what I should and shouldn't do with my bike, my car or my life in general. If you're too scared of yourself, sucks to be you.
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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #20 - 11/15/12 at 02:19:03

Cavi Mike wrote on 11/14/12 at 03:32:33:

ABS on a 250? You gotta be one horrible rider if you need ABS on a 250.

Mike, I am a Certified Motorcycle Safety Training Instructor with Canada's "Gearing Up" Program since 2008 and we teach standard Emergency Braking techniques to our Students on regular non-ABS equipped motorcycles. Essentially the smooth, progressive application of BOTH front and rear brakes simultaneously in order to try and prevent wheel lock while bringing Bike to a controlled stop as quickly as possible. We urge our Students to practise this drill with their own motorcycle on an empty lot once they leave our Program to get a "feel" for their own Bike and how it will behave under a simulated emergency braking situation.
Needing or not needing ABS has nothing to do with a Bikes engine displacement. We have on loan from Honda Canada an ABS equipped 2012 CBR250R and every single MTP Instructor with our local organization has (aggressively) put this Bike thru it's paces on wet and dry pavement and the ABS system has performed flawlessly and kept this Bike in control EVERY SINGLE TIME. Yes knowing proper braking technique for non-ABS Bikes is ESSENTIAL, but do not kid yourself ... ABS is the single most important safety feature to have been introduced to motorcycles in recent history. The fact that such an option is now available at very reasonable cost on an entry-level Bike such as the CBR250R is a sign of the times ... eventually all new motorcycles will be similarly (and affordably) equipped. ABS will be mandatory on all new Bikes sold in Europe within the next couple of years.

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Charon

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #21 - 11/15/12 at 06:07:32

Just this morning (11/15/12) CBS morning news aired a spot saying the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) wants to require all new cars to be equipped with auto-braking collision avoidance systems, lane departure warnings, blind spot warnings, and probably others systems. The claim, of course, is that these systems will save lives, reduce repair costs and damages, and so on. The car makers say the systems will add $3500 to the cost of every vehicle. Okay, Cavi Mike, let's see your comments on that one.

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SALB Serious Thumper Offline FSO Posts: 668 Whittier, AK Gender:	What's old is new again.....The CB is back! Reply #22 - 12/12/12 at 16:24:06 And this time without carbs to sync! http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cb1100.aspx
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jcstokes Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com is very useful Posts: 2119 Mauku New Zealand Gender:	Re: 6 new bikes from Honda Reply #23 - 12/12/12 at 17:10:59 While not wishing to contribute to some of the vehemence on this topic. How do you put ABS on a cable rear brake?
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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #24 - 12/12/12 at 17:44:40

Charon wrote on 11/14/12 at 19:33:12:

I can think of at least one or two possible downsides to ABS, besides expense. One, on dirt or gravel, it will sometimes increase stopping distances.... Another yet, it cannot react to the forces involved in cornering. Did I miss some?

... and the two times a motorcycle is most likely to skid out?... loose dirt or gravel,... and in a turn...

Kinda' like wearin' a parachute,... on a train... Huh

...

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #25 - 12/12/12 at 17:45:36

Cavi Mike wrote on 11/15/12 at 01:39:54:

I can't stand people like you Charon that try to force your beliefs on other people. Go knock on someone else's door and preach your garbage. You have no right to tell me what I should and shouldn't do with my bike, my car or my life in general. If you're too scared of yourself, sucks to be you.

Have you noticed that there are no new bikes, for some time now, that have a hand shift, or a rigid frame? Or why they were called "suicide" shifts?
Riding without a helmet is a great feeling, until you fall down.
In a couple of provinces in Canada it is mandatory that you have winter tires on your car.
The bottom line is these things save lives, a lot of lives.
If you don't want a bike with ABS, when ABS is mandatory, don't buy one. You still have a choice.

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gone fishing Full Member Offline Posts: 152 Gender:	Re: 6 new bikes from Honda Reply #26 - 12/12/12 at 18:41:53 Only works good on dry pavement. Don't work good in wet, dirt and gravel when you need it most. I have been riding since 1958 and never been down on the road. And no bike I ever had was equipped with ABS. Am I lucky or what....
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LostArtist

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #27 - 12/12/12 at 18:46:19

Serowbot wrote on 12/12/12 at 17:44:40:

Charon wrote on 11/14/12 at 19:33:12:

I can think of at least one or two possible downsides to ABS, besides expense. One, on dirt or gravel, it will sometimes increase stopping distances.... Another yet, it cannot react to the forces involved in cornering. Did I miss some?

... and the two times a motorcycle is most likely to skid out?... loose dirt or gravel,... and in a turn...

Kinda' like wearin' a parachute,... on a train... Huh

...

parachute woulda been awesome Cheesy

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #28 - 12/12/12 at 23:52:25

Charon, I don't want to start a tall table discussion, but I'm not real keen on government mandates to protect me from myself. When I'm not riding cycles I'm reading about them. The experience of test riders plus the $800 to $1200 premium that comes with ABS tells me that ABS may not be the best for everyone...but it does have merit, imo.

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Cavi Mike

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Re: 6 new bikes from Honda
Reply #29 - 12/13/12 at 03:28:13

arteacher wrote on 12/12/12 at 17:45:36:

Have you noticed that there are no new bikes, for some time now, that have a hand shift, or a rigid frame? Or why they were called "suicide" shifts?

Riding without a helmet is a great feeling, until you fall down.

In a couple of provinces in Canada it is mandatory that you have winter tires on your car.

The bottom line is these things save lives, a lot of lives.

If you don't want a bike with ABS, when ABS is mandatory, don't buy one. You still have a choice.

#1) Hand shifts are an inconvenience and rear-suspensions aren't MANDATORY (neither are foot-shifters)

#2) That's not your business what I do with my head because it's not your head.

#3) I fail to see what that has to do with the mechanical workings of a vehicle. Tires are bolt-on wear-n-tear parts, not integral.

#4) Once again - not your business what people do with their lives.

#5) How exactly is it my choice to buy a bike without ABS when it's mandatory? My only option is to buy something pre-ABS kind of like buying a car pre-OBDII but here it is 17 years later and already it's getting hard to find them. So, yet another invalid argument.

Once things go mandatory due to nanny-state people like yourself, eventually the good stuff slowly disappears. The plain and simple fact is you don't care about my well being or anyone else, you care about forcing your beliefs on others and that's all there is to it. You - as with Charon - are self-righteous.

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