SuzukiSavage.com - Jobs and the economy...

srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: Jobs and the economy... Reply #30 - 10/17/12 at 05:18:44 Correct JOG, 100%. That german analogy is a perfect example of what happens when you wage war on a bunch of countries ... and lets see who happened to do that in the US ... aaaah yes, the Bushies. Once again, Bushies was a repug ... no ? Good points you make JOG as always. Cool. Srinath.
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Charon

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #31 - 10/17/12 at 05:39:44

Want to know where a lot of jobs went? Every time you use a self-serve gas pump think about the pump jockey out of work. Every time you direct-dial a telephone number think about the telephone operator out of work. Every time you use an ATM think about a teller out of work. Every time you eat at a fast food joint (whether inside or at the drive-thru) think about the waiter/waitress out of work. Every time you shop in a grocery store or department store, think about the clerk out of work because you located and carried your own purchase. When you see a multi-engine train go by, think of the engineers and firemen out of work because one person in the lead locomotive controls all the others. When you see a farmer working with a huge tractor or combine, think of the farmhands out of work. The list goes on, and has nothing to do at all with offshore outsourcing. Most of the blame can be laid at the feet of automation and cheap energy. Now, what would you change to "bring back the old days and the jobs?"

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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #32 - 10/17/12 at 06:41:10

Much of that is automation as a result of our high cost of labor. In any case we should have under 6% or even 5%. The end result for the last couple of % is china, and illegals. I am glad we dont have 10, 15% unemployment.

In fact in the IT field Legal immigrants and legal non immigrants are taking a huge bite out of IT employment. The end result though is still under 5% ... however I am seriously suffering none the less. Worse yet is offshoring. However I have noticed that off shoring entire development cycles tends to produce very inferior products, something as a maintenance guy I make a living out of.

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Paraquat

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #33 - 10/17/12 at 09:21:14

Charon wrote on 10/17/12 at 05:39:44:

Want to know where a lot of jobs went? Every time you use a self-serve gas pump think about the pump jockey out of work. Every time you direct-dial a telephone number think about the telephone operator out of work. Every time you use an ATM think about a teller out of work. Every time you eat at a fast food joint (whether inside or at the drive-thru) think about the waiter/waitress out of work. Every time you shop in a grocery store or department store, think about the clerk out of work because you located and carried your own purchase. When you see a multi-engine train go by, think of the engineers and firemen out of work because one person in the lead locomotive controls all the others. When you see a farmer working with a huge tractor or combine, think of the farmhands out of work. The list goes on, and has nothing to do at all with offshore outsourcing. Most of the blame can be laid at the feet of automation and cheap energy. Now, what would you change to "bring back the old days and the jobs?"

Imagine the brainiac at Subway who let a snot rocket-esq blob of mucus drop from his nose into my sandwich. (I didn't eat it)
Imagine the bank teller working late at night because I can't get to the bank during their "normal banking hours".
Same deal with the post office. That could be a multi-million dollar idea. Someone who collects packages all hours of the night, promises to bring them to the post office, charges you, and then brings them during the day.
I can't afford time off work to mail a package and those idiots are closed before I even leave work... and Pitney Bowes cornered that market.

A combine doesn't put farm hands out of work. It lets them harvest faster and more efficiently. Expand the area and harvest more, faster.
I go to self checkout all the time. I love it. I wish more stores had it. I go to Stop and Shop to buy groceries not talk to someone.

--Steve

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #34 - 10/17/12 at 10:07:20

Charons points are on, but, unlike most of his posts, this one falls short of the mark. Look at Nafta & Gatt, thats where the Good $$ blue collar jobs went. The jobs that have been shot down by technology? Thats the price of progress. Robots on the line at the car plant, Numerically controlled machines in the machine shops, 1 guy can keep several machines putting out, ATM's, Now, Why did gas stations go self serve? Competition, pure & simple, people can stand to pump their own, usually. Most towns have a full serve station or 2, price on a gallon O gas in=s substantially higher, rich widows go there.Not enough of them to keep more than a couple o those stations afloat. The No Ethanol station is full serve. Price reflects it, too.

OUr economy really started hurting shortly after Nafta, & everyone who had the Slightest inkling I knew was against it.,The majority of America was against it, Yet, our electeds Passed it,,& the single most intelligent president since Kennedy signed it. No way they didnt know what it would do,, NO WAY they didnt know,,

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #35 - 10/17/12 at 10:29:14

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/17/12 at 10:07:20:

Charons points are on, but, unlike most of his posts, this one falls short of the mark. Look at Nafta & Gatt, thats where the Good $$ blue collar jobs went. The jobs that have been shot down by technology? Thats the price of progress. Robots on the line at the car plant, Numerically controlled machines in the machine shops, 1 guy can keep several machines putting out, ATM's, Now, Why did gas stations go self serve? Competition, pure & simple, people can stand to pump their own, usually. Most towns have a full serve station or 2, price on a gallon O gas in=s substantially higher, rich widows go there.Not enough of them to keep more than a couple o those stations afloat. The No Ethanol station is full serve. Price reflects it, too.

OUr economy really started hurting shortly after Nafta, & everyone who had the Slightest inkling I knew was against it.,The majority of America was against it, Yet, our electeds Passed it,,& the single most intelligent president since Kennedy signed it. No way they didnt know what it would do,, NO WAY they didnt know,,

Nope ... farm state repug's pushed for nafta. Remember both houses of congress @ that time were in repug hands ... Newter Ging rich was speaker ... Nafta turned the mexican market for farm produce upside down. The subsidised, mechanised, high yield monsatan junk was dumped into mexico my friend ... Nice link to your favorite punching bag huh ...
Nafta also got the illegals into the US, cos they dont have jobs in mexico.
BTW mexico is having an egg shortage ... and they have always hated US eggs. They didn't like the flavor apparently. But now they are forced to use it ... he he ... monsatan strikes again.

China is new mexico although, electronics was never going to mexico ... it was japanese, now its chinese.
I dont think china is taking too much that japan and mexico have not already took. maybe they are, cos we are throwing away more ... the japanese junk of the 80's were not thrown away ... atleast not for 5-10 years. We now toss em a lot more.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Jobs and the economy... Reply #36 - 10/17/12 at 11:02:18 The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President Bill Clinton. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to ... www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law - Cached
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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #37 - 10/17/12 at 13:47:22

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/17/12 at 11:02:18:

The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is signed into law by President Bill Clinton. Clinton said he hoped the agreement would encourage other nations to ...
www.history.com/this-day-in-history/nafta-signed-into-law - Cached

Correct ... that was after it was proposed and approved by 2 republican bodies of congress.
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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #38 - 10/17/12 at 13:57:11

NAFTA, a trade pact between the United States, Canada, and Mexico, eliminated virtually all tariffs and trade restrictions between the three nations. The passage of NAFTA was one of Clinton's first major victories as the first Democratic president in 12 years--though the movement for free trade in North America had begun as a Republican initiative.

You see JOG, Presidents dont write laws. they can veto them ... but in some cases that can be over ridden ...
99% of the BS that comes through our congress has both sides complicit in it. So dont lame Nafta on clinton, and dont blame bail out on Obama. Bushies did bail out, Obama followed it. Pug's sent nafta to clintstone's desk, he signed it. EOM, both sides are guilty.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #39 - 10/17/12 at 15:34:55

But, not only did Clinton sign it, he approved of it,.
I blame Clinton for not fighting it. Not to say he wouldnt have been over ridden, IDK,( The question we have to ask ourselves is, were there votes enough to beat a veto,, & I dont even have a clue what the ratios were nor do I remember what kind of vote is required to over ride a Presidential veto) but he Did sign it, he didnt veto it & he didnt fight against it. He was every bit as wrong as the bubs who wrote it.,& Why did they do that? I dont remember what Their so called "reason" was for wanting it, but it was clearly a bad idea. Dont think for a second I have any love for the bubs, I dont, I have the none for the dems, either. I am 100% unimpressed with what comes out of DC. They are not doing what the C says they are to do & theyre doing what the C says they are NOT to do.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #40 - 10/18/12 at 05:50:17

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/17/12 at 15:34:55:

But, not only did Clinton sign it, he approved of it,.
I blame Clinton for not fighting it. Not to say he wouldnt have been over ridden, IDK,( The question we have to ask ourselves is, were there votes enough to beat a veto,, & I dont even have a clue what the ratios were nor do I remember what kind of vote is required to over ride a Presidential veto) but he Did sign it, he didnt veto it & he didnt fight against it. He was every bit as wrong as the bubs who wrote it.,& Why did they do that? I dont remember what Their so called "reason" was for wanting it, but it was clearly a bad idea. Dont think for a second I have any love for the bubs, I dont, I have the none for the dems, either. I am 100% unimpressed with what comes out of DC. They are not doing what the C says they are to do & theyre doing what the C says they are NOT to do.

Clinton didn't have any power except to tell the fat chick chewing on his weiner ... "ooo baby that's it baby, that's good"
However Nafta was not a 1 way to mexico deal ... manufacturing went to mexico, but so did subsidised farm products ... it helped the farmers @ the cost of the unions.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Jobs and the economy... Reply #41 - 10/18/12 at 20:16:05 Huhh? He had the power to veto it. He didnt, he supported it, it was a bad idea.
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srinath

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Re: Jobs and the economy...
Reply #42 - 10/18/12 at 20:22:10

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/12 at 20:16:05:

Huhh? He had the power to veto it. He didnt, he supported it, it was a bad idea.

You know I think nafta temporarily gave to the mexicans what has later been taken away by the chinese, however we are dumping subsidized corn permanently in mexico. Nafta was pro farm and anti union ... we freaking need to get all the caucus and primary garbage to the same day ... Iowa has an outsized role in picking the candidates. No one wants to start to run a primary campaign without Iowa ... Iowa victory gave romney the nomination, and the reversal of Iowa 3 weeks later did not matter.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Jobs and the economy... Reply #43 - 10/18/12 at 20:28:06 You think nafta was good for america?
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srinath Serious Thumper Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 5349	Re: Jobs and the economy... Reply #44 - 10/20/12 at 07:24:36 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/18/12 at 20:28:06: You think nafta was good for america? Nafta benefited farms. Especially the big farms. Read my post, I did not say it was good for america. I said it was pro-farm. It was pro Monsatan. There is a loooooooong way to go from there to being "good for america". Cool. Srinath.
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