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Taller gear possibilities (Read 557 times)
Gyrobob
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #15 - 10/12/12 at 06:49:24
 
Here's another thought.  The RYCA has a pretty tight belt clearance situation:
-- the top and bottom of the belt when it gets close to the drive pulley
-- at the swingarm if you are using one of the RYCA modified swingarms and an old-style 4.00-18 tire like my Avon Speedmaster.  There is a very narrow range where the axle is forward enough to not overtighten  the belt when you hit a bump, and rearward enough to not rub on the swingarm.

If you install a pulley that is a 1/3" larger diameter, 1/6" (approx .017") larger radius, this would complicate the issue.

You'd need a longer belt maybe.  I'd be surprised if there is a 1/2" longer belt available.
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Drifter
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #16 - 10/12/12 at 07:57:46
 
I agree a 8% change would be noticable and a welcome change!!  Like others have asked how much metal needs to be removed?  Is the 400/750 pully the same as the 454?  

I was looking at a gpz 305 and the pullys were way different in size.

This sounds like a good idea to keep the belt drive.
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #17 - 10/12/12 at 08:08:09
 
Drifter wrote on 10/12/12 at 07:57:46:
I agree a 8% change would be noticable and a welcome change!!  Like others have asked how much metal needs to be removed?  Is the 400/750 pully the same as the 454?  

I was looking at a gpz 305 and the pullys were way different in size.

This sounds like a good idea to keep the belt drive.


I have the measurents at home....I will post the part number and dimensions when I get home.
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Gyrobob
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #18 - 10/12/12 at 08:15:33
 
Do belts exist in different lengths for Savage?
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #19 - 10/12/12 at 08:41:20
 
There are industrial belts available in different lengths, but you'll pay a premium for them.

The savage belt has 133 teeth.

next size up is 135, then increment in 5's.
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Gyrobob
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #20 - 10/12/12 at 12:17:57
 
verslagen1 wrote on 10/12/12 at 08:41:20:
There are industrial belts available in different lengths, but you'll pay a premium for them.

The savage belt has 133 teeth.

next size up is 135, then increment in 5's.




If I switched to a 135 tooth belt, how much rearward would the axle move for the same belt tension?

So if you use a belt with more teeth, does that give you a higher gear?

Wink
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Boule’tard
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #21 - 10/12/12 at 13:13:15
 
Gyrobob wrote on 10/12/12 at 12:17:57:


If I switched to a 135 tooth belt, how much rearward would the axle move for the same belt tension?


One toothlength * cos(angle between countershaft/axle line and belt)

That is close but not 100% accurate for reason too lazy to type.
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #22 - 10/12/12 at 14:59:55
 
here is serowbot thread on the pulley

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1334871333/0
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Gyrobob
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #23 - 10/12/12 at 20:33:32
 
Who makes the belt?  Gates?  Kelly Springfield?
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #24 - 10/12/12 at 20:53:25
 
bando
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #25 - 10/13/12 at 07:46:34
 
I measured the new pulley....and calcuted the diameter of the stock pulley so I don' have to take mine off.

The 25 tooth pulley has a circumference of 347mm as measured with a cloth tape, and the calculated diameter is 110.45mm.  If I calculate the reduction from 25 tooth to 23 tooth it provides a circumference of 319.24mm, and a diameter of 101.61mm.  This makes an increase of the new pulley radius of 8.84mm (0.1738").....or just a tad less then 3/16".

The pitch of the teeth appears to be 13.88 mm - so getting a belt with 2 more teeth would lengthen the distance to the rear wheel by the distance of one tooth (13.88 mm or 0.54")....so the longer belt would move the rear wheel back (0.54" - 0.1738" = 0.3726")....or about 3/8".
(Update:  I just read a following post where the tooth pitch is 14mm and not 13.88 as I calculated....and I suspect the difference is the diameter of the belt on top of the hub....or the innacuracy of the cloth tape).

I measured the hubs on both the stock 23 tooth and the 25 tooth, and it is necessary to remove 0.368" from the front of the hub and 0.183" from the back of the hub.  I checked my measurements as it was hard to get a good reference point with the calipers I have....and the to distances checked within 0.045".....so that is my accuracy error and when I get them machined I will take both pullies.  I have a friend that thinks he can machine it on a lathe....it will take carbide bit inserts and from what I have read.....it takes a few of them.

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #26 - 10/13/12 at 07:53:55
 
3E2D3A3B24292F2D267 9480 wrote on 10/12/12 at 20:53:25:
bando



Yes I see that now.  I just went out and looked at it.  Bando 27611-24B00-133  I measured it as well.  40mm wide with a 14mm pitch and a thickness (height) of 9mm.  Maybe it was 10mm when new.

I have been strolling around the internet and have as yet to find a listing of these belts that shows the Savage belt as well as a 135 tooth version.  I found a few charts that show 40mm 135 tooth 14mm pitch belts, but there is not enough info there to know if those belts are suited to harsh motorcycle duty.
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Gyrobob
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #27 - 10/13/12 at 08:02:23
 
Dave said, "I measured the hubs on both the stock 23 tooth and the 25 tooth, and it is necessary to remove 0.368" from the front of the hub and 0.183" from the back of the hub."

Do you really have to remove about a 1/2" from the pulley hub area from side to side?  That would seem to be asking for some variation in keeping the pulley perfectly perpendicular to the axis of rotation. I suppose, though, if the pulley is a tight fit on the spline, this won't be a problem.  I'm just curious as to why kawasaki thinks there needs to be so much more contact area on the spline.
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #28 - 10/13/12 at 08:23:19
 
Gyrobob wrote on 10/13/12 at 08:02:23:
Dave said, "I measured the hubs on both the stock 23 tooth and the 25 tooth, and it is necessary to remove 0.368" from the front of the hub and 0.183" from the back of the hub."

Do you really have to remove about a 1/2" from the pulley hub area from side to side?  That would seem to be asking for some variation in keeping the pulley perfectly perpendicular to the axis of rotation. I suppose, though, if the pulley is a tight fit on the spline, this won't be a problem.  I'm just curious as to why kawasaki thinks there needs to be so much more contact area on the spline.


Yes......you have to remove the material or it won't fit.  The Kawasaki hub is too wide to allow the lock tab and nut to fit on the Suzuki.

The Kawasaki pulley is held on by a splined keeper.  It goes on the outside of the pulley, rotates in a notch machined into the splines, then bolts onto the pulley.  It only prevents the pulley from moving along the shaft.....it does not lock the pulley onto the shaft.  The Suzuki pulley is mounted with a threaded nut and keeper.....so the pulley is tightened onto the shaft.  Maybe with the Suzuki method of mounting with a highly torqued nut.....they didn't feel they needed more width.
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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #29 - 10/13/12 at 09:20:32
 
That's going to be some really hard metal, I think I might rough it down with a grinder first and then give the carbide cutting tools a try to take the final few hundredths off. Since it goes on with a nut, you should be able to fix small spacing errors with shims, better to not need them but looks like it should work.
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