SuzukiSavage.com - Taller gear possibilities

serenity3743

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Taller gear possibilities
10/11/12 at 08:43:26

I mentioned this in the 2013 Tail of the Dragon thread, but I think it deserves its own posting. The story thus far is that my drive shaft splines wore down and finally let go. I am in the process of dismantling the engine and will soon split the case to get at the tranny. Iwas thinking while I'm in there, I'd like to see what can be done to improve the overdrive effect by maybe inventing a 6-speed. But a "fellow Tailer's" suggestion was to try to find and install a taller 5th gear. I seem to recall someone (Verslagen, Lancer, Oldfeller?) saying that in the early years - 1986 until 1990s - the old 4-speed tranny had a 4th gear which was actually slightly taller than our current 5th gear. Has anybody verified this? Alternatively, does anyone know, or know how to find out, if there are any "6th gears" which might interchange with my 5th?

Thanks in advance for your input.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #1 - 10/11/12 at 08:55:41 I've never seen one, if the taller primary exists, it's on an '86 or maybe an '87. I've got an '88 and it's identical to all the others.
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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #2 - 10/11/12 at 09:09:20 Is there any possibility of a drive pulley with another tooth on it? I would assume having one made would cost several hundred bucks
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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #3 - 10/11/12 at 09:49:46 Yeah there's some Kawasaki pulley that's 25t but it requires machining front and back to fit the shaft.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #4 - 10/11/12 at 11:36:56 Is this the same "Machining" we saw accomplished with a grinder mounted to a mini drill press?
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Gyrobob

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #5 - 10/11/12 at 11:42:59

Cavi Mike wrote on 10/11/12 at 09:49:46:

Yeah there's some Kawasaki pulley that's 25t but it requires machining front and back to fit the shaft.

How many teeth does our bike have?

How much machining? Is it just lathe work? I occasionally shoot IPDA with a guy who has a lathe in his work shop. He gunsmiths occasionally and has some cool equipment.

I'd be interested in getting a taller gear ratio for the CS-1 I'm riding around now.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #6 - 10/11/12 at 11:58:49 23
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Dave

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #7 - 10/11/12 at 14:18:03

The stock Suzuki pulley is 23 tooth, the kawasaki EN454 LTD or something like that is a 25 tooth. The hub is the correct spline - but is thicker and needs to be machined on the front and back to match the width wee need. The problem is the metal is some sintered, hardened, tough stuff.....and evidently throwing it in a lathe is not very productive. I bought one......I just have not gotten it machined yet.

For the better gear ratio.....so far the closest looking one I have found in the parts list is the 6th Gear in the Suzuki Versa. It is in the same location on the input and output shafts.....but nobody knows if the shaft size, splines, or gears are any better?

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Gyrobob

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #8 - 10/11/12 at 21:41:49

Dave wrote on 10/11/12 at 14:18:03:

The stock Suzuki pulley is 23 tooth, the kawasaki EN454 LTD or something like that is a 25 tooth. The hub is the correct spline - but is thicker and needs to be machined on the front and back to match the width wee need. The problem is the metal is some sintered, hardened, tough stuff.....and evidently throwing it in a lathe is not very productive. I bought one......I just have not gotten it machined yet.

For the better gear ratio.....so far the closest looking one I have found in the parts list is the 6th Gear in the Suzuki Versa. It is in the same location on the input and output shafts.....but nobody knows if the shaft size, splines, or gears are any better?

Tough metal that is very hard to cut on a lathe can often be ground down. If all that is needed is to make it fit the spline on a Savage that is just not as long as the spline on a 454, you don't need to be very precise for that.

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HondaLavis Senior Member Offline It's nothing personal; the other one came first. Posts: 451 Plano, TX	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #9 - 10/12/12 at 01:19:29 If you wanted to change the gear ratio between the drive pulley and the rear wheel, you could do it very easily with a sprocket/chain conversion. You can get sprockets made in any size you could think of.
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Cavi Mike

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #10 - 10/12/12 at 01:27:08

Gyrobob wrote on 10/11/12 at 21:41:49:

If all that is needed is to make it fit the spline on a Savage that is just not as long as the spline on a 454, you don't need to be very precise for that.

Yes you do. We've gone over that in another thread - the makeshift mill using an angle grinder that was mentioned earlier. The spline will not keep the pulley straight. How true the pulley spins is dependent on how true the mounting surfaces are. The mounting surface must be perpendicular to the pulley.

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Drifter Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 430	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #11 - 10/12/12 at 04:41:07 Has anyone done the kawi pully conversion yet if so what do you think, any noticeable change? 2 teeth does not seem like much.....
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Gyrobob

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #12 - 10/12/12 at 04:42:31

Cavi Mike wrote on 10/12/12 at 01:27:08:

Gyrobob wrote on 10/11/12 at 21:41:49:

If all that is needed is to make it fit the spline on a Savage that is just not as long as the spline on a 454, you don't need to be very precise for that.

Yes you do. We've gone over that in another thread - the makeshift mill using an angle grinder that was mentioned earlier. The spline will not keep the pulley straight. How true the pulley spins is dependent on how true the mounting surfaces are. The mounting surface must be perpendicular to the pulley.

I should have stated it more clearly. Yes, of course the surfaces must be perfectly flat and perpendicular to the axis of the pulley shaft. The actual amount taken off the pulley is not as important. All that matters for the distance from one side of the pulley to the other is that it be within a few hundredths of the stock pulley and that it ends up centered on where it should be for belt alignment.

How much needs to be taken off?

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Dave

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Re: Taller gear possibilities
Reply #13 - 10/12/12 at 04:49:13

Drifter wrote on 10/12/12 at 04:41:07:

Has anyone done the kawi pully conversion yet if so what do you think, any noticeable change? 2 teeth does not seem like much.....

Yes, a couple of people have done the conversion. MMRanch is one. The difference between them is 25/23 = 1.0878....or 8.7% overdrive. This will reduce the rpms in high gear by 23/25 to 92% of what it was before the change. With stock gearing the bike at 60 mph is turning about 4,000 rpm....with the change in the front sprocket the engine will be turning 3,680 rpm at 60 mph. Those who have done the change say it is a noticeable difference.

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Taller gear possibilities Reply #14 - 10/12/12 at 06:42:07 A new 25t drive sprocket from Cheap Cycle Parts is about $85. I wonder how much a machine shop would charge to take off enough metal so it would work on a Savage? How much metal has to be removed?
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