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2 broken brake disc bolts - oops (Read 333 times)
DrunkenDwarf
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2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
10/10/12 at 22:19:08
 
Removing the tires was going fine. Almost too easy. Until I tried to remove the brake disc from the front hub. 2 of the 4 bolts broke off. Sad

So much for doing it myself.

-D. Dwarf
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Pearl White 2007 S40; Dyna exhaust; Current jets: 52.5 w/ bleed (2 turns out) / 1.5mm (0.06") spacer / 150; raptor petcock
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verslagen1
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #1 - 10/10/12 at 22:24:55
 
those are in there with locktite which is darn near permanent type.

don't fool around with it

1st pen oil in the back side, and a small easy out.  

If you can't do it, take it to a machinist.
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DrunkenDwarf
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #2 - 10/10/12 at 22:38:27
 
Now I know.

I was assuming I needed to remove the disc to put on the new tires. I should have asked first.

-D. Dwarf
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Pearl White 2007 S40; Dyna exhaust; Current jets: 52.5 w/ bleed (2 turns out) / 1.5mm (0.06") spacer / 150; raptor petcock
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verslagen1
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #3 - 10/10/12 at 22:40:53
 
ah, hate when that happens, no, you don't.
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DrunkenDwarf
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #4 - 10/10/12 at 23:28:55
 
From the website:
Quote:
Cleanup

Clean adhesive residue immediately with a damp cloth. Cured product can be removed with a combination of soaking in methylene chloride and mechanical abrasion such as a wire brush. For disassembly, heat parts up to 482°F (250°C) and separate parts while hot.

Yikes!

-D. Dwarf
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Pearl White 2007 S40; Dyna exhaust; Current jets: 52.5 w/ bleed (2 turns out) / 1.5mm (0.06") spacer / 150; raptor petcock
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #5 - 10/11/12 at 00:42:00
 
I used an impact wrench... I must have got lucky...

....sounds like they must have broke at the rotor?... is there any threads left to grip on with a vise grip?... also,.. if you can,.. cut a slot in the stub, and use a flatblade in combination with vise grips...
Tight grip,.. and, tap,..tap,.. tap,.. with a hammer on the end of the grip?...
... if not,... it's take it to a machine shop time... those guys are magic...
(they make me feel stupid)... Grin...
... it's amazing what they can do...
(and they do so love making me look stupid)... so much so, that they don't charge much for doing the impossible... just to show me how simple it was...

Bless'ed are the machinists... Huh...

Best luck,..

PS... getting to point of begging a machine shop to get you out of trouble,... is not a failure...
It's a badge of honour...
...you stepped out there and pushed the DIY limits...
Wink...
.. if you do end up there... watch them...  they know things... Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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Cavi Mike
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #6 - 10/11/12 at 00:57:11
 
Most likely they broke because he used an L-shaped hex-key. Am I correct?

Cap screws shouldn't be removed with L-shaped keys because much of the force is actually applied the wrong way, cocking the head and jamming it into the part even harder - whether it's your handlebar clamp, your brake disc, whatever. You should always use something that can only turn the bolt. Something like a long T-handle, an impact wrench or a ratchet with a 10" or longer extension.

L-shaped hex-keys are for R/C cars and bicycles, not automobiles and motorcycles.
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Serowbot
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #7 - 10/11/12 at 01:02:19
 
Cavi Mike wrote on 10/11/12 at 00:57:11:
L-shaped hex-keys are for R/C cars and bicycles, not automobiles and motorcycles.

I never thought about it before...  ..but, I have set of hex sockets, from HF, about $8.00 or so...
They are heaven...   spend the bucks... Wink...
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #8 - 10/11/12 at 02:19:49
 
I used a L shaped Allen, but, I put a 1/4" drive deep socket on it, with an extension, held a bind on it & spanked it with a body hammer, effectively making an impact. No heat,I had no idea,,
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DrunkenDwarf
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #9 - 10/11/12 at 10:01:50
 
Serowbot wrote on 10/11/12 at 00:42:00:
I used an impact wrench... I must have got lucky...

....sounds like they must have broke at the rotor?... is there any threads left to grip on with a vise grip?... also,.. if you can,.. cut a slot in the stub, and use a flatblade in combination with vise grips...
Tight grip,.. and, tap,..tap,.. tap,.. with a hammer on the end of the grip?...


They broke off in the hub, there's nothing sticking out. I'll probably need a heat gun and easy outs. Or a machinist.

Cavi Mike wrote on 10/11/12 at 00:57:11:
Most likely they broke because he used an L-shaped hex-key. Am I correct?

Cap screws shouldn't be removed with L-shaped keys because much of the force is actually applied the wrong way, cocking the head and jamming it into the part even harder - whether it's your handlebar clamp, your brake disc, whatever. You should always use something that can only turn the bolt. Something like a long T-handle, an impact wrench or a ratchet with a 10" or longer extension.

L-shaped hex-keys are for R/C cars and bicycles, not automobiles and motorcycles.


I used a hex socket, but that's good advice. Thanks.

The first two I put the socket wrench on and they wouldn't budge, so I put a hammer to the end of the wrench to break them loose. The second two (the ones the broke) turned pretty easily to start with, so I didn't use the hammer on them. I wonder if they were already stressed.

Is this something a generic motorcycle shop can take care of or should I be looking for a machinist?

-D. Dwarf
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Pearl White 2007 S40; Dyna exhaust; Current jets: 52.5 w/ bleed (2 turns out) / 1.5mm (0.06") spacer / 150; raptor petcock
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Cavi Mike
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #10 - 10/11/12 at 10:05:58
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/11/12 at 02:19:49:
I used a L shaped Allen, but, I put a 1/4" drive deep socket on it, with an extension, held a bind on it & spanked it with a body hammer, effectively making an impact. No heat,I had no idea,,

I have no idea what you're talking about but if you're hitting it with a hammer, once again you're putting side-forces against the bolt. It's wrong. Period. The point of the extension is not to make the bar longer and to give you more leverage. That's not an extension in the first place, that's a cheater bar. The point of the extension is to raise you off of the head of the screw which automatically makes you support the head of the ratchet with your other hand. In that position you're now exerting twisting forces against the bolt - no more side forces.
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #11 - 10/11/12 at 10:47:45
 
Serowbot wrote on 10/11/12 at 00:42:00:
I used an impact wrench... I must have got lucky...

....sounds like they must have broke at the rotor?... is there any threads left to grip on with a vise grip?... also,.. if you can,.. cut a slot in the stub, and use a flatblade in combination with vise grips...
Tight grip,.. and, tap,..tap,.. tap,.. with a hammer on the end of the grip?...
... if not,... it's take it to a machine shop time... those guys are magic...
(they make me feel stupid)... Grin...
... it's amazing what they can do...
(and they do so love making me look stupid)... so much so, that they don't charge much for doing the impossible... just to show me how simple it was...

Bless'ed are the machinists... Huh...

Best luck,..

PS... getting to point of begging a machine shop to get you out of trouble,... is not a failure...
It's a badge of honour...
...you stepped out there and pushed the DIY limits...
Wink...
.. if you do end up there... watch them...  they know things... Huh...



You have clue how right on spot you are.. and not just bikes/cars... guns. ( I buy crap guns adn try to fixem to resell)... sometimes it works.. often times not. I think I am UP to -$30 profit in 3 years...
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #12 - 10/11/12 at 11:30:46
 
Cavi Mike wrote on 10/11/12 at 10:05:58:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 10/11/12 at 02:19:49:
I used a L shaped Allen, but, I put a 1/4" drive deep socket on it, with an extension, held a bind on it & spanked it with a body hammer, effectively making an impact. No heat,I had no idea,,

I have no idea what you're talking about but if you're hitting it with a hammer, once again you're putting side-forces against the bolt. It's wrong. Period. The point of the extension is not to make the bar longer and to give you more leverage. That's not an extension in the first place, that's a cheater bar. The point of the extension is to raise you off of the head of the screw which automatically makes you support the head of the ratchet with your other hand. In that position you're now exerting twisting forces against the bolt - no more side forces.



I know what Im talking about, done it many, many times, Increased torque in some places just = busted bolt, I create the same type of twisting force an impact does, using a socket & extension as a cheater on the allen, putting some tension on it, then, striking it quickly with a light hammer where the end of the allen is in the socket, Im not creating side forces , just twisting & theyre applied with the hammer on top of the tension required to see the strain in the allen, just slightly,
I have been a mechanic at the Western Company, working on big stuff, a copier repairman, working on delicate stuff, Ive fixed slide projectors, fax machines, shredders, cash registers, calculators, oil field pumps, done body repair on bent cars , changed the frames on 2 pickups & have the equivalent of an associates in electronics , courtesy USAF. I can cook, clean & sew & have designed a tool for catching a fish downhole on a well when 2 engineers failed to get it. HOnestly, I dont see me needing anyone telling me why what I did wont work, or is a bad way to go about it, But thatnk you for your input.
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Cavi Mike
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #13 - 10/11/12 at 20:01:26
 
I'm proud of you. Would you like a gold star? It's still wrong and it strips or breaks the heads off of bolts - as we've seen right here in this very thread. So congratulations on doing it the wrong way your entire life and completely ignoring the signs just like this guy did. Instead of taking a step back and rethinking his process after he broke the first bolt, he - just like yourself - proceeded to do the exact same thing and break a second bolt.

Now, as I was saying:

This is not an extension. This is a cheater bar and it's WRONG.



THIS is an extension and this is how you properly remove caps screws to prevent the head from stripping or breaking.

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Boule’tard
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Re: 2 broken brake disc bolts - oops
Reply #14 - 10/12/12 at 08:48:25
 
I had a difficult hex key like that on a Husky once.. cam sprocket was held on with loctited hex bolts.  I never thought to use a ratchet, impact wrench, or heat.  Luckily the thing didn't break on me, but while cleaning the blood off my hand I was thinking DANG I should have at least put gloves on.  Roll Eyes

Just my thoughts as I stopped by to delete a couple of crappy unhelpful messages.
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