I think teaching a kid to ride a bicycle has some good examples in it, but the thing is that there subtle.  It doesn't take much counter-steering to make a bicycle roll (lean) and turn...it doesn't have much mass, compared to a 300+ lb motorcycle.    

I think part of why some people don't realize they are counter-steering is because of learning the skill on a bicycle...since it takes much less force, you just don't realize it.

In fact, we usually tell a kid "lean to turn", right?  If you watch a kid lean on a bicycle, what auto-magically happens?  They unintentionally turn the handlebars slightly to the left when they lean their body right, and vice versa.  True?    I think counter-steering is much more subtle on a bicycle, but it's definitely still happening.

Just some thoughts.  

Dave

Dave Sisk wrote on 09/25/12 at 13:30:48:

What we have here is a failure to communicate!  
You're both leaving a few conditional statements left unsaid.
Going straight, CG over points of contact = balance
Turning, CG over points of contact = asphalt facial

Here is what Wikipedia has to say on the subject (though I know they aren't always right).

"At low speeds

At low speeds countersteering is equally necessary, but the countersteering is then so subtle that it is hidden by the continuous corrections that are made in balancing the bike, often falling below a just noticeable difference or threshold of perception of the rider. Countersteering at low speed may be further concealed by the ensuing much larger steering angle possible in the direction of the turn."


So like I was saying before, with the demo the instructors gave, you always countersteer, even at a dead stop. The issue is that because it is low speed, you are having to balance the bike(i.e. you aren't going fast enough to keep that angle on the front wheel so you steer into the turn to balance) but either way, you countersteer even at low speeds.

CalisOsin wrote on 09/25/12 at 13:45:47:


You and I may be the only ones around here that understand this.

I can't believe you guys are still on about this. Just ask someone who races motorcycles and they'll tell you how it works.

You can always tell the guys that don't understand counter-steering because every time they come up on a hard curve, they slow way the heck down.

The counersteering process may very well be operating during slow-speed (walking pace) maneuvers on a motorcycle, but is barely perceptable ... we still instruct students to turn the bars in the direction in the direction they want to go during the slow-speed exercises and this works ... the physics involved are interesting for sure, but newbs generally do not want or need to clutter their brains with this info to learn how to steer a motorcycle! Same goes for higher speed turns during which the physics of coutersteering is much more perceptable ... we have found that Students really do not want or need a detailed explanation of the forces involved in order to learn how to do it, other than the oft repeated phrase, "push left, go left. push right, go right"

When teaching newbs, we don't tend to use the term "counter steering" as some "over-thinking" types amongst Student Motorcyclsts will interpret the concept as being counter intuitave ... which can be confusing for them ... the term "push steering" seems to work much better for the explaination part of the lesson.