I explained this to someone else this way, so I figured I'd post it here.  

To get the bike to turn right:
You don't actually lean the bike at speed...you roll it (like an airplane). To make the bike turn to the right, you have to roll it to the right.  To roll the bike to the right, you have to move the wheels out from underneath the bike to the left...then the bike itself automatically rolls/leans to the right. To move the wheels out from under the bike to the left, you turn the steering wheel slightly and momentarily toward the left.  This moves the wheels out from under the bike to the left, rolling the bike (ie. leaning it) right, which makes it turn right.

To get the bike to turn left:
To turn the bike left, you have to roll it to the left.  To roll it to the left, you move the wheels out from under the bike to the right, which rolls (leans) the bike left, making it turn left.

To end the turn, you turn the handle bars slightly and momentarily toward the inside of the turn...this moves the wheels of the bike back directly underneath the bike, causing it to stand upright and go straight.

The key point here is that the bike doesn't actually lean...it rolls around it's horizontal axis (the horizontal axis being line you're looking down when riding down the road).  The bike doesn't lean with the wheels in the same path...the wheels move out from under the bike to the opposite direction of the turn, which rotates the bike around the horizontal axis of travel.  Turning the handle bars the opposite direction from the turn is what moves the wheels out from under the bike.

Cheers,
Dave

The faster you're going, the wider your bike will need to go to make a turn - the bike has to counteract more force the faster you go.

Jeff, as someone who is pretty new to motorcycling but who raced mountain bikes for years, I think what you are feeling is pretty normal. The important thing is not to get too hung up in the "turn left to go right, turn right to go left" paradox that everyone likes to throw around. If you can ride a bike, you instinctively know how to counter steer. You just have to adapt that instinct to a two-wheeled vehicle with a lot more mass.

Dave's explanation is really good, but you have to think about what it means when you actually set up for a corner.
1) When you start to counter steer into a corner, your wheels swing out from under you away from the corner.
2) When you counter steer into a corner, it takes time and distance from the point where you initiate the turn by counter steering, to the point where the bike actually starts to turn.

When you say you're having trouble counter steering in time to make a curve, it sounds to me like you are just turning in too late. In doing so, you are making your trajectory to the apex of the corner a lot sharper than it needs to be. Remember: if you start counter steering at the point where you need to be turning in to the apex, you are turning in too late. Counter steer so that your wheels swing out away from the corner so that they will then accelerate into the apex at your intended turn in point.

I like that you use the term "roll" instead of "lean," Dave. I like to think about the center of my bike being at my hips, and all movement centers around that point. Hey, you're bike is a lady. Sometimes you gotta dance with her a little bit  

@Jeff-  Do you look through your turns?  Turn just your head, not your shoulders, this will go a long way in making your turns smoother till you get more experience in the saddle  

Here's another analogy.  You are driving along in your cage.  You feel like being a cool guy today, so you are holding the steering wheel with only one hand at the bottom of the wheel.

You want to turn left.  Do you have to analyze the situation, or do you just subconsciously move your hand to the right?

Gyrobob wrote on 09/25/12 at 05:11:00:


I forget where I first heard (read) of this concept.....but I do remember the question was something like:  "When you come to a right hand corner on your motorcycle.....you:  1)  Turn right. 2) Turn left. 3) Lean right.  4) Lean left.

Well I got the answer wrong, as I had never thought about it and just rode out of instinct.  I could not imagine the concept of turning left to go right.  I don't know if the use of the word "countersteer" is confusing or what causes the fueds over what is going on.  I have since discovered that if I am going straight down the highway and I push gently on the the left handlebar......the bike leans over and goes left.....and if during that turn I pull on the left handlebar.....the bike stands back up.  If anyone that doesn't believe that this happens would just give this simple test a try.....I believe they would understand that they are intinctively doing this without thought.  Leaning, shifting weight on footpegs, etc. can have some influence - but most of the turning is done by putting pressure on the bars and allowing the bike to do the work.  My scrawny 156 pound body had very little affect on the 800 pound Harley I rented this summer - and the direction that I pushed or pulled on the handlebars is what made the bike go around corners and stand back up when exiting the corner.

For those disbelievers.......just try this next time you are riding.  Find a straight stretch of road and take your left hand off the bars (you can leave your right hand on the throttle grip and maintain your speed).....then take your left index finger and push lightly forward on the left handlebar.  The bike is going to turn to the left even though you are pushing the bar the other direction.  Maybe this is what confuses people......you may not be steering to the right.....but you are certainly putting pressure on the bars in that direction.  When the bike is leaning over and making the left turn.....if you pull on the left handlebar....the bike will then stand up and return to the straight line.  If you clear your head and actually feel what you are doing while turning.....you will feel that you are pushing on the bars in the opposite direction that the bike actually goes.  

Wow...I had no idea this post would create so much (good) discussion.  I agree the simply way to think of it is "push right turn right...push left turn left".

I think lots of people countersteer instinctively without even realizing it. I think for newbies, it's really good to understand the whole countersteer concept though because a newbie may not *have* those instincts yet.  

Any way you slice it, it's good to know and practice.  It's much harder to swerve around a big unexpected pot hole by putting weight on one of the footpegs...if you consciously know how to countersteer, it's much easier to just flick the bike around an obstacle. I'm a newbie too (from the spring), so particularly obstacle avoidance is just starting to become second-nature to me.  

I like the "dances with bikes" phrase, btw.  

Cheers!
Dave

Gyrobob wrote on 09/25/12 at 05:11:00:


Yes, but only because it's already second-nature. Maybe a better analogy is backing a trailer up.    Until you've gotten a lot of practice at it, it takes some conscious thought to point the trailer the right direction in reverse...you have to turn the steering wheel the opposite way, and it's not intuitive the first several times you do it.

Counter-steering a bike is already second-nature for most riders...but not for some of us newbies. We have to consciously practice it, THEN it becomes second-nature and automatic.

Dave