SuzukiSavage.com - Oil changing question

ToesNose Serious Thumper Offline Pardon me, do you have Hot Sauce? Posts: 1993 Mooresville, NC Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #45 - 09/08/12 at 04:31:46 Gyrobob wrote on 09/07/12 at 19:14:15: Who cares whether or not we can ever get bill enlightened? We (except for bill) all know the following: . The issue is when new people come on looking for facts instead of biased opinions they get Bill thrown in the mix and don't know how to deal with it
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Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #46 - 09/08/12 at 04:38:40 Is there any way you could set the forum software to automatically add a warning to Bill's posts? Something on the order of a signature block?
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #47 - 09/08/12 at 04:50:24

Mysterious has a broad range of things he could do, including stopping Bill from posting in Rubber Side Down. But, frankly, none of that is going to happen.

I've run out of ways to creatively "Kill Bill" so I guess it's time start to clip the one-liners.

And let's face it -- part of the issue is my frustration in having to endlessly correct his nonsense "presented as fact" to new persons.

My frustration, Justin's, Charon's, Verslagen's -- the list goes on.

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #48 - 09/08/12 at 06:20:13 Quote: The issue is when new people come on looking for facts instead of biased opinions they get Bill thrown in the mix and don't know how to deal with it zackly
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Uno-Lung

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #49 - 09/08/12 at 07:07:42

Biased opinions? Snicker... What’s a noober to do? Research and form their own opinions.

It’s a HDMO so it will be Okay,. No, it maybe ok is the correct answer and this forum is biased toward the Rotella T products and has not addressed the over cleaning of the cylinder walls by the mother load of calcium and magnesium in the TBN package aimed at the diesel application Shell is shooting for in the Rotella products.

Not all additive packages for TBN and ZDDP are created equal. This next link, while aged and done by Amsoil, does not include the Mod’s sweetheart – mainly because Oldteller T is not a motorcycle oil.

http://bestoil4you.com/files/MC_Oil_Study.pdf

More evidence that TBN if not formulated for motorcycles is detrimental to cylinder walls.

The level of detergents and other additives is higher for diesel, to combat the higher soot levels of diesel engines and take advantage of the difference in the catalytic converter in diesels. In a gas engine, diesel oil's greater concentration of detergent, or scrubbing agent, can remove manufacturer's deposits on the cylinder wall that help seal the combustion gases. This can lead to smoking inside the engine, which can in turn damage the catalytic converter

source: http://www.ehow.com/about_6386085_difference-diesel-engine-motor-oil_.html

TBN is the measurement of the oils reserve alkalinity to fight off acid that forms during the combustion process. If something is neural it is neither acid or alkaline – basic ninth grade chemistry. While we don’t want acid in our engines, the lowest we should let the TBN go is 2 or 4. Of course, with the engine we are talking about holds two quarts and not gallons, like road diesels, the TBN really isn’t a number that is that very important to us unless we are going for extended drain intervals. The fallacy that we need high base numbers and it measures the additive packages is kind of a misnomer and misunderstood. TBN measures the alkaline detergent. (Calcium (Ca) and Magnesium (Mg) are the additives blended with oil to neutralize acids and acid by-products) that are used up by the combustion and blow-by of fuel that contaminates the crankcase oil. Low sulfur gasoline and now ultra low sulfur diesel fuel also help in the fight against acid attacks, and are the main reasons there are so many oils the can be called universal (mix fleet) concoctions (ie. Rotella Turd).

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Oil changing question Reply #50 - 09/08/12 at 07:11:22 This can lead to smoking inside the engine, which can in turn damage the catalytic converter . I sure hope I dont hafta buy a new one O them,,
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Gyrobob

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #51 - 09/08/12 at 08:57:45

I agree, JOG.

Also, despite the official statements at the end of the Amsoil study, how much credibility can you put in a study financed by Amsoil that finds Amsoil is the best oil?

This is a great statement, as well: The level of detergents and other additives is higher for diesel, to combat the higher soot levels of diesel engines and take advantage of the difference in the catalytic converter in diesels. In a gas engine, diesel oil's greater concentration of detergent, or scrubbing agent, can remove manufacturer's deposits on the cylinder wall that help seal the combustion gases. This can lead to smoking inside the engine, which can in turn damage the catalytic converter.
It references catalytic converters and damage to the manufacturers' deposits on cylinder walls. I think my bike is not burdened with either of those concerns.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #52 - 09/08/12 at 09:50:12 +1 to JOG and Gyr and I find the entire Uno post w/out merit of a substantial reply. another one's that's arguing for the sake of arguing.
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rfw2003 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1108 Yantis, TX	Re: Oil changing question Reply #53 - 09/08/12 at 10:07:46 verslagen1 wrote on 09/08/12 at 09:50:12: +1 to JOG and Gyr and I find the entire Uno post w/out merit of a substantial reply. another one's that's arguing for the sake of arguing. +1 I agree as well
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Uno-Lung

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #54 - 09/08/12 at 10:35:01

In a gas engine, diesel oil's greater concentration of detergent, or scrubbing agent, can remove manufacturer's deposits on the cylinder wall that help seal the combustion gases

Maybe not the manfacturer's deposits, but the engine's deposits that help seal for compression. Therein contains hook, boyz.

I put as much credibility in Amsoil being the best as I do Rotella T.

Picking on the cat portion is pretty much without merit, and just because someone disagrees with the hive mind doesn't mean that it's just for the sake of arguing. Your Shell zeal may have blinded you to the fact that your hurting your cylinder walls.

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« Last Edit: 09/08/12 at 14:17:33 by Oldfeller--FSO »

"You can't change the world but at least you can try and put a dent in it!" Smootchy

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Gyrobob Serious Thumper Offline Posers ain't motorcyclists Posts: 2571 Newnan, GA Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #55 - 09/08/12 at 10:45:34 Looks like we touched a nerve,...
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #56 - 09/08/12 at 12:47:16 + 1
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Charon

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #57 - 09/08/12 at 13:03:09

I'd be interested to know just what "manufacturer's deposits" are being referenced. And which manufacturer? The engine manufacturer? The oil manufacturer (who would be unlikely to put something in the oil which would remove deposits intentionally left by the oil)? The fuel manufacturer? The manufacturer of the piston or rings, if they are not made by the engine manufacturer? Something isn't making much sense.

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Eschew obfuscation.

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Oil changing question
Reply #58 - 09/08/12 at 14:08:11

Click on Uno-Lung's name, down at the bottom of his specs is his "check Uno-Lung's last 25 posts" -- when you review his entire post history end to end it is obvious that Uno-Lung only exists as somebody's sock puppet, so you understand a position of editing or deleting his comments upon sight as troll food, which I will promptly go and do.

Is there any merit to the excess detergency thing? Yes, there is history of people saying don't use full diesel oils in old V8's as the old pleated rubber main seals depended on a sludge build up to work correctly. Removing all the sludge did cause oil consumption in these older V8 style engines.

Performance issues are a mixed bag. Muscle cars running actual races don't use any detergents at all, as their oil gets changed at races end and ANY performance loss is anathma to a racer. All race oils sold as race oils lack long distance detergent packages as racers don't need them and don't want them.

Top fuel dragsters making 2,000 hp out of a blow fueler actually have some decent discussions on the evils of detergent oil on their forums (to them a 1-2% potential loss in hp means not winning after all).

Filter Uno's real points through a few reality check filters though, first in Rotella we are using a HDEO instead of a full diesel oil and Rotella is formulated and approved for use in gasoline engines (and is tested and approved for motorcycle engines).

Next, the whole world uses this stuff all the time, and if any detremential effects were out there they would have page after page written on them on bike sites and on auto diesel sites and on BITOG.

So, let me go take care of my favorite sock puppet's excesses and all you nice folks have a good Saturday afternoon calmly and rationally discussing your favorite subject.

Grin

..... now if Uno is a sock puppet, whose hand is stuck up inside his arse ?

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« Last Edit: 09/08/12 at 15:43:26 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Oil changing question Reply #59 - 09/08/12 at 14:18:07 If you don't like OF oil he removes your post.If you want to know why our country is in back shape,Is because some people don't know how to handle power.OF a republican for sure.
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