THE BEST WORDED PRO-GUN ARGUMENT I HAVE EVER READ

As the Supreme Court heard arguments for and against the Chicago, IL Gun Ban, this man offered you another stellar example of a letter (written by a Marine), that places the proper perspective on what a gun means to a civilized society.

Interesting take and one you don't hear much. . . . . .

Read this eloquent and profound letter and pay close attention to the last paragraph of the letter....

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force.  
If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception.

Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

Contradiction.... ...
Quote:


If you are armed,.. you are any man's equal,... unless, he is faster...
In a face to face confrontation,.. a bare fist will beat a gun, because it is more accessible...
Midnightrider wrote on 08/29/12 at 20:42:56:

The spoils go to the swift,... not the heavy...


So,.. I disagree...

The problem with an armed citizenry... is that everyone needs to be armed to be equal... and this makes armament, a moot point...
The advantage goes again to the young, strong, swift, and most of all,...
the one that acts first... which is always the aggressor...

Civilisation,.. requires trust in the laws of the land...
Guns just raise the stakes... ...

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/29/12 at 23:25:31:

Thugs are just going to up the anty...
Once again,.. I'll point out...
The thug has the advantage,.. he knows what's about to happen...  
Unless you are a "Zimmerman".... and assume you are being confronted,.. you will taken aback... and the first strike will not be expected...
I'm only 140lbs,... but I guarantee,.. in an unfair fight, I have the ability to take you out, or at least severely disorient you in a single punch...
Now,.. your gun is mine...

What I'm saying is... it's not about equal, or superior force... it's the first strike... and, a law abiding citizen will not get that...
Whether you are carrying or not... in everyday life you just won't be prepared...
This is how grifters and con men get the mental jump on you...
... and this is how thugs, get in the first punch...
The criminal, knows why he is approaching, and has planned this all out...
You,.. are shopping for a garden hose...
It's not a fair fight...
... and it's not about having a gun...  it's about acting first...

Admittedly,.. you might take a you-tube idiot... but, most criminals will have you down and bloody, before you know you are in a situation...

I've lived in some bad neighbourhoods...  I know from which I speak...
Delude yourself if you wish...
It'll probably never happen,... and you'll spend your life toting a boat anchor in your waistband...
... in an uncomfortable state of delusion...

PS... once again,.. I remind... I own 9 guns... mostly for entertainment,...
I believe I might defend myself in my home,...
In this case,.. I do not come from a liberal, pacifist mindset...
...but in the day to day world... a gun is a fools comfort...

I'm not being a radical liberal here... just a realist...
Superior power, is only an advantage, if you have time to use it...
Unless you live your life on a tightrope,.. you just can't be prepared...
If you are,.. you're gonna' give yourself a stroke...

Does no one see the truth in this?...  
Bruce Willis always wins,... that's Hollywood... he falls down a 100ft elevator shaft and only gets a cool scar on his cheek...

The very points this guy makes in his argument... contradict his thesis...

Instead of looking for some hole in my argument,... look at the simple truth of it...
You could likely take out an armed man, with your bare hands,... if you knew what was coming...
You just won't...
They will...
Not fair, but true....

 A gun is a tool, it is only as good as the person who uses it, or as bad as the person who abuses it's power. It chooses no favorites and has only one purpose, to kill. It cannot kill on its own, and it holds no power of its own, it is a deadly reflection of its owners intent..

 Civilization is not associated with guns or gun owners. Civilization is based on civil discourse, NOT threatened discourse.. Maj. Caudill might forget that having a weapon permently attached to your hip 24/7/365 is not civilization, it is a war zone!

  I have a CC permit, I do carry, I wish I didn't have a need for this tool, I do wish this civilization granted me the peace of mind not to have to worry about deadly force in my daily life... The best weapon we all have is our minds, keep your eyes open, if something doesn't look right, it probably isn't!

Guns are a deterrent only if carried out in the open. Concealed carry is useless.
Guns are a deterrent only if the criminals know the carrying gentry is well trained and level headed.
Guns are a deterrent only to someone who isn't suicidal.
Guns are a deterrent only to someone who's not out to incite chaos. Evere hear of friendly fire ... I can easily see a gun rampage in a crowded mall where the criminal takes out 10 before s/he and 20 others are shot dead by the rest of the citizens carrying guns.

With all these caveats - really arming everyone isn't a solution ...
Training everyone to use guns and getting attention to social problems and access to counselling etc etc so we catch the ones that are on the edge before they go off the deep end and when we put all that into the picture ... then carrying is a solution.

However Imagine how much expense it will be, and it will have to be done by the govt and not ask a dime from the ones you are training and counselling, and you have to do a proper outreach, like sweep the streets off the people who are marginal, and get them to counselling, it will be the biggest govt program in the world. We can not split it @ state level cos there is a huge influx of guns from other states in states like NY and DC which have tight gun laws, so it has to be done federal level ... and since the ones that are screaming about big governement are the same ones that want to have guns, I can see how it will never be implemented right.

Cool.
Srinath.

Points 1 and 2 are bore out by a good subject society.

Switzerland. They have mandatory military service. They obviously are trained in the use of it etc etc. Then they are upon leaving the service encouraged to take their firearm every where they go etc etc.

Switzerland has one of the lowest gun crimes in the civilised world. I think they have the lowest crime period ...

I think the fact that every one is well trained, and armed is the deterrent.

However there has of late been an increase in suicide and domestic crimes using service weapons over there I have heard.

Cool.
Srinath.

Guns are a deterrent only if carried out in the open. Concealed carry is useless.

I disagree. While CC is legal & some %age of the population does it, the bad guys have no idea if someone is or isnt armed. Take note of the crime rates in places where guns are outlawed & only the outlaws have them. Compare that to places that allow CC. Of particular interest, look at Florida. Some years ago, tourists in rentals were so often being robbed that the rental companies stopped putting decals on their cars. Then, they made CC legal & the crime rates dropped, precipitously.
Remember the car jacking days of the 70's? It came to a halt when Louisiana gave drivers the freedom back to defend themselves. A few thugs, gut shot, kicking & screaming & bleeding out in the streets & pretty soon they decided thaT WASNT A GOOD GAME TO PLAY., Opps, caplox, sorry.,.

SAN ANTONIO - A woman is in critical condition after she was stabbed outside her child's school Tuesday morning.

The attack happened around 10:00 a.m. Tuesday outside the Bonham Academy on St. Mary's Street. Teresa Barron, 38, had just dropped off her child at the school when the child's father showed up, and the two got into an argument. The child's father, 38-year-old Roberto Barron allegedly then stabbed the woman several times in the upper body and neck area.

Police say a bystander who happened to be a concealed handgun license holder pulled his weapon and ordered Barron to drop the knife. Barron surrendered and was taken into custody by the bystander and a school district officer.

The woman was taken to San Antonio Military Medical Center.

Barron was arrested for aggravated assault, and is in jail on a $150,000 bond.