SuzukiSavage.com - Halvors O2 tuning

paulmarshall Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1268 Carterton,New Zealand Gender:	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #90 - 07/10/13 at 16:04:15 I find this topic very interesting. Particularly for those of us with different piston sizes and other mods where your basic tuning might not apply. Forgive me if this sounds silly but does the sensor interfere with the exhaust flow? And once fuel/air is setup will it need to monitored? or can the sensor be removed and forgotten?
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #91 - 07/10/13 at 16:55:01

paulmarshall wrote on 07/10/13 at 16:04:15:

I find this topic very interesting. Particularly for those of us with different piston sizes and other mods where your basic tuning might not apply.
Forgive me if this sounds silly but does the sensor interfere with the exhaust flow?

nope.. not enough to matter

And once fuel/air is setup will it need to monitored?

nope, jetting wont change if you dont change them. get it like ya
want it, stop changin stuff, it will change f/a ratio based on altitude, temp/humidity, etc, but you cant keep that from happening,,

or can the sensor be removed and forgotten?

yep, as stated above, you can mount the sensor in a short section, slap it between header & muffler, do the tuning, pull it, ride

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paulmarshall Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1268 Carterton,New Zealand Gender:	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #92 - 07/10/13 at 17:05:31 So it would pay for a group to put $$ together to buy one and send it around those who paid. Or rent it out.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #93 - 07/10/13 at 17:15:46 you, sir, have connected the dots,, if i had one gathering dust, id ask for a deposit & freight, but, the "renter" has to trust to get the deposit back,, it all boils down to trust & trust-worthiness. i guess a 3rd party could hold the deposit, one sufficient to "inspire" the return of the tool.
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Halvor Junior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 86 Norway Gender:	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #94 - 07/18/13 at 14:41:34 I find it interesting to watch the numbers and have it permanently. It looks like the weather have a quite big effect on the numbers (combustion) =o2 nerd ??
Back to top	Savage 96, Enfield muffler. Lowered forks. Progressive springs Drag bar. big head light. GL1000 fender. small back light. Black. mini turn lamps, vm36 180-20. o2 sensor ! K&N IP Logged

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2001 LS650 With 97mm
Big Bore Kit, Stage
III Cam.

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Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #95 - 07/28/13 at 11:12:07

My bike is a 2001 LS650 with a LOT of performance work done recently. I am still breaking it in (currently has 600 miles). I have an Air/Fuel Ratio gauge on it and am fine tuning the carb jetting but I ran out of jet sizes and had to order more. I started with a 180 main jet, 20 pilot jet, a Q5 needle jet and a 6FJ6 needle. The A/F gauge indicated it was VERY rich down low off the gauge below 10.0 to 1! Switched to the 15 pilot jet and it is still very rich at (10.5 to 1), still rich at mid range even with the jet needle clip on the top notch! ( 12.8 to 1) and so lean up at the top end it was off the gauge way over 20 to 1 !! I will switch to a 200 main jet and see what the gauge indicates but I expect it to still be near 20 to 1. When my new jets arrive I will post more details to come on the engine build along with details including final jet sizes and A/F numbers on this Mikuni VM36 carb and how to install a A/F gauge on your bike for less than $75.00!!

Performance build sheet:

97mm Carbide High Compression (10.5 to 1) Big Bore Kit
Ported cylinder head
Web Stage III cam
Mikuni VM36 racing carb
UFO, Torque Wing and Dial-A-jet installed on the carb
Custom muffler, stock head pipe.
Barnett High Performance clutch
Chain drive conversion 2.53 ratio (OEM is around 2.95)

Power is astounding even with the jetting this far off!

At 3400 RPM I am doing 60 MPH at 1/8 throttle! YES, that is correct....1/8 throttle!

Averaging 50 MPG with this poor jetting!

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #96 - 07/28/13 at 12:41:10 Averaging 50 MPG with this poor jetting! Dont worry,, YOull be able to get it down substantially,,
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paulmarshall Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1268 Carterton,New Zealand Gender:	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #97 - 07/28/13 at 12:54:48 I will be interested in seeing the info you provide. I too have done the 97mm piston and will be replacing the carb with a TM36-68. Can I say that I replaced the stock header with a larger diameter before the piston upgrade and it sounded and performed better.
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Halvor

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Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #98 - 08/17/13 at 11:22:15

Do you have the narrow band sensor? One wire? I found out that mine showed high o2 at both lean and rich. Try to lean it out down hill, constant trottle, and look wich way the numbers changes. I was so confused before, that I found the biggest and smallest main jet wher the engine stumbled on WOT. 150 - 280. Now I ended up on 180-20 with my vm36. It runs like a rocket now. If I should do anything it should be the cluch springs. It slips a bit when accelerating. But I doubt I will do more on the engine. THis bike is scary as hell in 100.

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Savage 96, Enfield muffler. Lowered forks. Progressive springs Drag bar. big head light. GL1000 fender. small back light. Black. mini turn lamps, vm36 180-20. o2 sensor ! K&N

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #99 - 08/17/13 at 12:02:34 BE aware! YOu already have a time bomb in your clutch. The little paddle that pushes the throwout rod into the pack? Just a mashed up load of powder,, They break, its not all the time, but its far from Uncommon, have one machined out of steel, then do the springs,
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Halvor Junior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 86 Norway Gender:	Re: Halvors O2 tuning Reply #100 - 08/17/13 at 13:15:00 ok. I will remember that, and the chain tensioner. What else can happen?
Back to top	Savage 96, Enfield muffler. Lowered forks. Progressive springs Drag bar. big head light. GL1000 fender. small back light. Black. mini turn lamps, vm36 180-20. o2 sensor ! K&N IP Logged

Super Thumper

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2001 LS650 With 97mm
Big Bore Kit, Stage
III Cam.

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Windsor, Vermont
Gender: male

Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #101 - 08/17/13 at 13:28:41

I have an 02 gauge on my bike. When it is indicating any number such as 20.0 (maximum range), 10.0 (Minimum range) or anything in between the number displayed on your 02 gauge means a RATIO of that number to one and NOT say 20%. Example: the gauge indicates 14.7 this means the ratio of air to fuel by weight is 14.7 to 1 and not 14.7%.

Here is a link for a more detailed description of air fuel ratios:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio

The 02 meter mounted on the bike helps me get the carb dialed in very close to optimal then I do all my fine tuning on a dyno. This gets the mixture perfectly dialed in every time. takes about 1-2 hours of dyno time at $85.00 an hour at the local Harley dealer.

The reason I have an 02 meter permanently installed on my bike is I play with different cam profiles, mufflers and carbs all the time. The 02 gauge lets me know if the mixture is getting off to much and I need to re-jet.

FYI...I have a highly modified engine and the jets I had to order to get this carb even close to right have cost me more than the original price of the carb.

My A/F ratio is currently running at 13/1 at 1/4 throttle cruise, 10.3 at idle and off the gauge over 20/1 at WOT!

I am getting 60+ mpg and I need to order more jets, particularly needle jets...these cost almost $20.00 each.

My engine is a 97mm high comp motor with a high lift web cam, ported cylinder head, stock head pipe and custom muffler.

main Jet: 210
needle jet: Q0
Pilot jet: 10.0
UFO
Torque wing

The guy at the Harley dealer freaked out when he saw I had a 210 main jet in this engine...he says he doesn't use jets that large on 110 HP Harley's....I told him this ain't no Harley...this is a SUPER THUMPER!!

When I am done with the dyno I will post all the results including final jetting.

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paulmarshall

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Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #102 - 08/17/13 at 13:40:21

What I find interesting is that with all the mods that are going on the stock header pipe is being forgotten. I reckon this has to be one of the most restricting parts on the Savage. Replacing the stock header with a larger free flowing header was my first mod, and this alone improved performance and sound.
Spending $$$ on pistons,cams,carbs etc is great but you are not getting 100% performance with a restricted header.
People want better sound and put mufflers on but the sound is also restricted by the restricted header. When I replaced my header I ran the stock muffler and it sounded heaps deeper. Of course now I have replaced the muffler and a number of other things, which has left me with a nice deep thump.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #103 - 08/17/13 at 14:48:09

Halvor wrote on 08/17/13 at 13:15:00:

ok. I will remember that, and the chain tensioner. What else can happen?

You handle those & youre golden,,
OHH, By the way,, I went with the Cam & Supertrapp & I thot I was real clever,, I shimmed my clutch springs,, my little paddle broke, Took out the chain guide the tensioner is attached to. Thankfully it was at less than 20 MPH,,

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Super Thumper

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2001 LS650 With 97mm
Big Bore Kit, Stage
III Cam.

Posts: 469
Windsor, Vermont
Gender: male

Re: Halvors O2 tuning
Reply #104 - 08/17/13 at 14:54:27

The reason I left the stock head pipe on is I want to jet this engine for a stock head pipe which is what most folks will have when they buy a Big Bore Kit. More jetting will come when I put a big bore header pipe on it...FYI with the stock head pipe this engine pulls very hard all the way to 6500 rpm where I stop...I won't over rev this engine. The most surprising thing is the low and mid range torque this engine has which is just unbelievable and is the major contributing factor to the high fuel economy. This engine is very lean on the top end and I won't keep it there for more than a few seconds until I get the top 1/4 throttle jetted in. Right now it has topped out at 95 mph and when the jetting is right I expect something over 100 mph. Right now top gear roll on is better than my friends BMW R100 RS and a 30 mph to 70 mph roll on in any gear I leave him behind. More to come when the jetting is done...take the seat off, take the tank off, take the carb off, take the carb apart, put it all back together again and go for a ride...done this about 12 times so far getting the carb jetting where it is now and still more to do Shocked

I added this later:

I have a Barnett High Performance clutch in this bike...the stock clutch couldn't handle the power but the Barnett does!!

More info added Sunday morning:

I have listed the parts I am using for my 02 setup so you folks can do it yourself...greatly helps tuning.

The 02 gauge does not come with amounting cup or housing so I bought a cheap plastic one from Amazon and clamped it to my handlebars with a couple of screw clamps....works fine but looks jury rigged,,,which I guess it is!

02 gauge:

FYI...this gauge has a blue LED display which is a little difficult to read in direct sunlight but I couldn't find a better price anywhere!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008P6DOIG/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF...

02 sensor:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009IK7YC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF...

02 sensor bung:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CODCOK/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF...

02 gauge mounting cup:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00957YUN2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF...

The total cost was around $70.00 including shipping.

I made a custom muffler out of 2 1/2" exhaust pipe and a reducer from Auto Zone and welded the 02 bung in the muffler just behind the clamp and used a solid steel spiral inner core from Dennis Kirk but they don't carry them anymore...here is a link to another place that sells them:

http://www.powersportjunkie.com/product-p/PSJINT-076295.htm

This muffler has a nice tone...not the harsh metallic edge most other mufflers have.

I use this muffler for my carb tuning to get the jetting close and then fine tune it on the Harley dealer's dyno.

I tried to find the post with the pics I took of this muffler but can't seem to find it.

Happy tuning!!

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« Last Edit: 08/18/13 at 07:37:47 by Super Thumper »

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