Srinath; i'm not sure if you're high or just naturally.... creative with the english language..., but i can't make heads or tails out of what you're talking about. Honestly, what the hell is this suppose to mean?

You do know that your 4k-11K rise from 1960 to 2010 is a bit pathetic incomparison right - in 1960 we were @ less than a trillion. in 2008 we were @ 13 trillion. 15 fold increase vs a 3 fold increase ... OK who says they have to increase in lock step ... Ok fine ... however if you count in the mandatory payments I am gonna say the 4k to 11K rise is closer to a 4k-5K rise than to 11.

I think you are really Bill67 with another signon name.....

but... the only thing I can easily make out is: From 95-2001 the debt to gdp dropped from about 68% to around 58%. Who was running the WH then ... Bill Clintstone ah I see.

to which I can only say see the history of Newt Gingrich and the historical losses the Democrats suffered when it became apparent to the American voters Clinton was on his way to what Obama is doing now. Which, by the way, caused Obama to lose massive amounts of Democratic congressmen as well. It was Newt that slowed Clinton's spending, not Clinton himself.

back to my original point, Medicare and SS are unsustainable in their present form. Something has to change. By choosing Ryan as VP, Romney is going to try and do something. Obama will try more of what's been done in the past which is band aids to trick you into thinking they've been saved.

So, do you go with someone serious about addressing the issue or someone not serious?

Bill; NO ONE is talking about kicking people off Medicare or SS. NO ONE.

The reality is the two programs are not sustainable in their present form. They are not. Get that through your head. There are more and more people drawing benefits from both programs and fewer and fewer people contributing. Stop talking stupid class warfare crap. Stop it. If we do nothing, they will collapse. Something has to be done. My son is 24 and neither Medicare or SS will be around in 40 years. It's mathmatically not possible.

What would you suggest we do? Nothing. Keep talking how Romney and Ryan don't care and just keep the status que until we reach the tipping point like Greece? is that your plan?

WebsterMark wrote on 08/28/12 at 04:57:12:



Well Ryan and Romney are going to change it of course ... they are going to make it much much worse ... following the Ryan plan if they do that. If they follow The O-Romney-bama plan ... it will trim it round the edges ... till someone implements the better plan IMHO. Read on.

Only 1 thing can change it for the better ... prices on the wall and no insurance to doctor direct payments ... heck there should be no interaction between those 2. Even medicare needs to be on a patient only basis.

In the absence of that ... I'd have taken single payer ... in the absense of that O-Romney-Bama plan will have to do. There is no political will in the republican party to do anything close to that prices on the wall idea.

Most of the rest of the civilised world has single payer ... the rest of the world has prices on the wall ... you dont got to a restaurant that dont have a price list, you dont go to an auto repair shop that dont have prices, you dont go to a grocery store that dont have prices and yet you do that on the most $$$ things you may ever do ... The secrecy is what gives the system its ungodly hold over people. It needs to be tossed into the open and it will whither and die and in its place a new system will come to life.

Cool.
Srinath.

 Ok, we are ALL in agreement that medicare/medicaid needs change, but how do you achieve it?

  Ryans plan is to go to a voucher system, another givaway to big insurance, and a major cost to seniors. Along with less coverage.

   Obama's plan is to cut the abuse, the overbilling, the double testing, and fraud. The ACA is also supposed to bring lower costs to supplement plans by creating market coops for people to purchase.

   To myself the later plan is better, it isn't perfect and sooner or later will have to be changed to socialized medicine. You can't continue to pay a middle man everytime you want care, and the overhead of administering a couple hundred different insurance plans is top heavy.

   If all of America went to a single payer system, issued a card at birth, everybody pays, even on welfare the cost is deducted from your check! You can walk into any doctors office, any hospital, and get care. Your whole medical history is on that card, one swipe and any doctor/hospital can access your records in seconds. When you have to go to a nursing home, its covered, you do not have to worry about losing your lifes savings, work, just because your old! Yep, we ALL would have to pay for OUR own care, nope we wouldn't have any co-pay, hidden charges, coverage loopholes, or out of area charges.

    How long can big insurance and the Republican party continue the onslaught of anti-socialized medicine media, and lies? How long before the people of this nation wake up? We are not #1 in healthcare, we 27th in the world! The only people who come here for medical care are the rich, they can afford to have their own personal ball washer, most of the US cannot..

   If you look at history for 77 years the Republican party has called SS a pox on America.. For 77 years it has kept the elderly from poverty, hunger, and even death. They have no other plan except to kill it, along with Medicare, they would like nothing more than to give it all to the big insurance, and market giants.. The problem is that markets crash, and big insurance likes to raise their prices every year..

   Think about this little fact, on 9/11 3000 people died, we invaded two countrys, spent a couple trillion dollars on these wars.. Every year 45,000 people die because of lack of healthcare, and the best we can do? I guess vengence is a bigger driver than basic care? The Republican party would much rather build a military than take care of its own.. 

WebsterMark wrote on 08/28/12 at 09:20:46:


Because they do - and you never hear about it.
Because we are #27 in a cumulative quality+outcome vs cost ratio, not just in quality.
Even more interestingly, the countries that have socialised medicine dont let anyone in even the rich, even if you will pay out the ears for it. There is no price on it.
However medical tourism is good and alive atleast among the foreign born ... Everything from root canals to plastic surgery I know of people who go to India ... of course they are of Injun origin ...
Cool.
Srinath.

Ok, we are ALL in agreement that medicare/medicaid needs change, but how do you achieve it?

Ryans plan is to go to a voucher system, another givaway to big insurance, and a major cost to seniors. Along with less coverage.

When you start your commentary on how we achieve what we all agree on with ‘another giveaway to big insurance’ you pretty much disqualify the rest of your commentary as not being worth a darn.

Obama's plan is to cut the abuse, the overbilling, the double testing, and fraud. The ACA is also supposed to bring lower costs to supplement plans by creating market coops for people to purchase.

Really? So your plan to solve one of the biggest problems facing us is cut abuse and fraud? Every single president says they are gonna cut abuse and fraud and none ever do. Do you have any idea how much of the trillion dollars stimulus money we borrowed was stolen and wasted?  You think for one second you’re gonna pay for medicare reform by cutting abuse? Have you heard of the GSA scandal? It’s repeated everyday all over the country. Expanding Medicare is like calling the cows to feed….

To myself the later plan is better, it isn't perfect and sooner or later will have to be changed to socialized medicine. You can't continue to pay a middle man everytime you want care, and the overhead of administering a couple hundred different insurance plans is top heavy.

What do you think Government bureaucrats are other than middle men? And worse, they are middle men with no profit motive. I don’t understand how you guys thing running healthcare like the DMV (or the VA)  is a good thing…. Are you out of your freaking minds……

If all of America went to a single payer system, issued a card at birth, everybody pays, even on welfare the cost is deducted from your check! You can walk into any doctors office, any hospital, and get care. Your whole medical history is on that card, one swipe and any doctor/hospital can access your records in seconds. When you have to go to a nursing home, its covered, you do not have to worry about losing your lifes savings, work, just because your old! Yep, we ALL would have to pay for OUR own care, nope we wouldn't have any co-pay, hidden charges, coverage loopholes, or out of area charges.

Why the world is great! Just walk into a doctors office and swipe a card! Ain’t life grand? . It’s like the Big Rock Candy Mountain. “In the Big Rock Candy Mountains, you never change your socks and little streams of alcohol come trickling down the rocks. There’s a lake of stew and whiskey too, you can paddle all around them in a big canoe, in the Big Rock Candy Mountains”…



If you look at history for 77 years the Republican party has called SS a pox on America.. For 77 years it has kept the elderly from poverty, hunger, and even death. They have no other plan except to kill it, along with Medicare, they would like nothing more than to give it all to the big insurance, and market giants.. The problem is that markets crash, and big insurance likes to raise their prices every year..

No, for 77 years it has given a false sense of security to millions and kept the elderly from a more comfortable retirement. And the government raises it’s price every year too, it just gets borrowed and you dont see it. Now the bill is coming due, but you’ve got your head in the sand.

Think about this little fact, on 9/11 3000 people died, we invaded two countrys, spent a couple trillion dollars on these wars.. Every year 45,000 people die because of lack of healthcare, and the best we can do? I guess vengence is a bigger driver than basic care? The Republican party would much rather build a military than take care of its own..

Let me guess, you want the military to hold a bake sale to buy a battleship right?....

"When you start your commentary on how we achieve what we all agree on with ‘another giveaway to big insurance’ you pretty much disqualify the rest of your commentary as not being worth a darn."

 Well what else would you call it? Do you have another name for handing tax dollars and private monies to insurance companys? Its liking to a no bid contract for all services.. It pretty much stinks...


"Really? So your plan to solve one of the biggest problems facing us is cut abuse and fraud? Every single president says they are gonna cut abuse and fraud and none ever do. Do you have any idea how much of the trillion dollars stimulus money we borrowed was stolen and wasted?  You think for one second you’re gonna pay for medicare reform by cutting abuse? Have you heard of the GSA scandal? It’s repeated everyday all over the country. Expanding Medicare is like calling the cows to feed…."

  Thats not my plan, that is the Presidents plan, it will help, but like I tried to explain to you, IT IS NOT THE total cure.. Every program and corporation out there, private and public is prone to abuse and fraud.. Get over it, its human nature, look at your canidates IRS record...

"What do you think Government bureaucrats are other than middle men? And worse, they are middle men with no profit motive. I don’t understand how you guys thing running healthcare like the DMV (or the VA)  is a good thing…. Are you out of your freaking minds……"

 Really? Like I have stated before SS is a success, Medicare was a success before the politicians got their hands on it.. No, YOU are out of your freaking mind, I like to think things through, so far all you have given me is hyperbole and failed for profit idealology..


"Why the world is great! Just walk into a doctors office and swipe a card! Ain’t life grand? . It’s like the Big Rock Candy Mountain. “In the Big Rock Candy Mountains, you never change your socks and little streams of alcohol come trickling down the rocks. There’s a lake of stew and whiskey too, you can paddle all around them in a big canoe, in the Big Rock Candy Mountains”…

  Maybe you should look at Canada's system, it is pretty much what I have described. That and quit making like there is nothing better than clicking those golden heels together and saying "We are #1, we are #1."..


"No, for 77 years it has given a false sense of security to millions and kept the elderly from a more comfortable retirement. And the government raises it’s price every year too, it just gets borrowed and you dont see it. Now the bill is coming due, but you’ve got your head in the sand."

 Hardly true, I have given you the actual numbers, you choose to ignore them and go with what Rush, Hannity, and the Fox crew tell you. I'll give you a hint, they are NOT into facts, they are into ratings! In those 77 years that "false" sense has kept millions from poverty, that in itself is a success story to me.. I don't know what planet you live on...

"Let me guess, you want the military to hold a bake sale to buy a battleship right?...."

  No, we need to cutback on military spending, we do not have a world power to worry about anymore, we are spending 48 times the rest of the world on defense.. We need to spend more wisely, not just more!