SuzukiSavage.com - Here's another one to think about

Ed L. Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline "We All go a Little Crazy Sometimes" Norman Bates Posts: 2808 Sunny Florida Gender:	Here's another one to think about 08/19/12 at 16:06:42 It's about a whole new type of systemic insectacide produced by Bayer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M_XnvZAcM0U This along with the GMO crops really makes one think about where the food industry is heading. I'm getting down off my soapbox for now.
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Savage_Rob

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Re: Here's another one to think about
Reply #1 - 08/20/12 at 12:02:52

A couple of companies make these and according to the product labels they are not harmful to bees. I've used them on my trees to kill borers and scale and they work. They were developed because the stuff we used to be able to get, like Lindane, is no longer available because of its toxicity and adverse effects. Another thing is that the other products currently available require you to spray all over the trees' surfaces. This typically requires protective clothing and associated precautions. In rural areas, they may be a better choice because the systemics are relatively expensive and overspray may be less of a concern. However, in urban and suburban settings problems of overspray also have to be taken into consideration. The version I used included fertilizer and was pretty easy to use.

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Ed L.

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Re: Here's another one to think about
Reply #2 - 08/20/12 at 17:43:07

It's a systemic poison which is found in all parts of the plant, trunk, branches, leaves, flowers, nectar and pollen. The bees gather the nectar and pollen, feed it to the young bee brood in the hive and the low level of poison doesn't kill the next generation of bees, it just makes them unable to perform as well as they should in the hive. After 2 or 3 generations the hive crashes and it is called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). The testing done on the neonics was performed by Bayer who just so happens to be the largest producer of this new family of insectacides and have lobbiests bending the ears of the EPA. It's a perfect example of the fox guarding the henhouse. Believe what you want, tobacco has never caused cancer and nicotine isn't as habit forming as crack cocaine or at least it wasn't until it was proven different.
I'm not going to go through all the cut and paste links to prove anything, just check it out yourself. The big companies only tell us what they want us to hear. Bayer is one of the largest chemical companies in the world and plans to keep it that way.

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: Here's another one to think about Reply #3 - 08/21/12 at 07:16:37 My understanding is that the cause of CCD has not been definitively determined yet but that the most likely culprit/contributor is a chemical called imidacloprid, which is a spray-on insecticide used largely by corn growers.
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Ed L.

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Re: Here's another one to think about
Reply #4 - 08/21/12 at 14:00:39

Imidacloprid is in the family of neonics which is produced by Bayer. It is used to treat the corn seeds along with an antifungual compound. There are two vectors that delivers it to a bee hive, one is from the dust that is knocked off the seeds during planting and the other is from the corn pollen the bees pick up. Even with corn not needing insects for pollenation the bees will gather some corn pollen just because it is there. The dust knocked off the seeds while planting is the most toxic and has been linked to multiple bee hive kills. You are right about a definitive cause of CCD, nothing has been proven yet. It is hard to prove anything when most of the grant money is controlled by the giant companies like Bayer and Monstanto.

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: Here's another one to think about Reply #5 - 08/21/12 at 14:08:59 Ed L. wrote on 08/21/12 at 14:00:39: It is hard to prove anything when most of the grant money is controlled by the giant companies like Bayer and Monstanto. No doubt about that.
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Midnightrider Serious Thumper Offline Alliance Member Posts: 3244 Winston Salem, NC	Re: Here's another one to think about Reply #6 - 08/23/12 at 20:59:49 We kill the bees, we kill ourselves. Long as somebody gets rich it will all be OK.
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Savage_Rob

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Re: Here's another one to think about
Reply #7 - 08/24/12 at 07:02:12

The last I read, they were thinking a combination of a fungus and certain pesticides but there are a lot of theories and none have been fully proven yet. I also read that there was a version of honeybee (I believe it is from Australia but I'm not positive) that they said seems to be unaffected. They are attempting to introduce it into other areas to hybridize or compete with other bees and maintain the ecosystem. Supposedly, it's essentially the same as far as the nectars it will be attracted to and what it will pollinate, etc. That's important because this often varies between subspecies as well as between bees, butterflies, etc. To be honest though, it's not something I tend to try to stay abreast of. It's one of those things I just catch in articles as I happen upon them in rags like Scientific American or Texas Parks & Wildlife, etc.

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