SuzukiSavage.com - Dumb Question about Rear Spokes

John in Kalifornia

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Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
08/18/12 at 23:59:29

Went to put the spokes on the 18 inch rear wheel. Don't fit, think they are all inner spokes. Stock spokes had 2 different bends. Tried to save money and ordered from Mike's XS, thought they would work.

Do any of you with the Ryca rear wheel remember if their spokes are inner and outer? Should have half with about an 80 degree bend and the outer spokes with a longer bend and more of an acute angle.

Thanks,

john in Kalifornia, feeling stupid

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18095 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #1 - 08/19/12 at 04:05:35 John: Yep.....Rear spoke sets should have 18 inner and 18 outer. The inners have less bend - the outes have to bend around the flange on the hub and need more angle.
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John in Kalifornia Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 127	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #2 - 08/19/12 at 07:13:11 Thanks, Dave. I'll try to return them and in the meantime get some spokes from Ryca, as they are local. Too many pieces all over the garage; need to get something put back together. BTW, did you get your spoke situation resolved? John in Kalifornia
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18095 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #3 - 08/19/12 at 09:02:20 Like you.....I had a motorycle spread all over my garage and needed to get my engine back together before I worried about wheels. I have the motor all back together as of noon yesterday, and went for about a 40 mile ride and everything is good. I will probable get the correct front wheel spokes ordered this week.
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John in Kalifornia

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #4 - 08/19/12 at 11:07:42

It's so easy to just keep on going taking things apart. Problem is over time things get lost, you forget how it is supposed to fit, etc. On the last bike I worked on, I took lots of pictures with the digital camera. The pics and line drawings from parts diagrams really helped. Cmsnl on the 'Net has diagrams going way back for Japanese bikes, though I would never buy anything from them, too costly to ship.

I haven't touched the electrics or engine yet. At 29k miles, it will probably need some work, a Versy for sure. I did start it up before teardown so at least it isn't seized. Easy bike to work on compared to many others.

John in Kalifornia

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braveteacher Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 154	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #5 - 08/19/12 at 14:32:50 http://suzuki-s40-ratbrat.weebly.com/index.html I bought spokes from Ryca and they are all the same...no different...no different bends...all the same...check out my web page on the bottom of page 1...
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John in Kalifornia

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #6 - 08/19/12 at 17:09:09

That doesn't seem right. I'll have to check with the Ryca guys tomorrow. If the spokes are all the same bend that means someone didn't do their homework. It's pretty obvious from the old spokes that there are inner and outer types.

Am I the only one to notice this? I can't believe all those other Rycas have the wrong spokes and nobody noticed. Or doesn't anybody do their own wheel lacing?

John in Kalifornia

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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #7 - 08/20/12 at 02:07:36 I've never heard of "inside" or "outside" spokes, they just bend differently after they've been installed and tensioned.
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tizzyfit Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 158	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #8 - 08/20/12 at 02:44:04 Cavi Mike wrote on 08/20/12 at 02:07:36: I've never heard of "inside" or "outside" spokes, they just bend differently after they've been installed and tensioned. Depending on the wheel your attempting to lace, the brake side MAY have a different size (length) spoke than the non-brake side.
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Dave

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #9 - 08/20/12 at 05:24:09

Here is a picture of the inside and outside spokes for the front wheel. You can see that the spokes on the right that cross over the spokes nearest the hub have the bend offset a bit.

The offest is necessary for the inner spokes to seat in the hub properly......without the offset the spokes nearest the center of the hub push out on the spokes nearest the hub flange....and this happens:

For the rear spokes there are inner and outer spokes as well. The bends are at different angles as the inner spokes have much less of an angle since they are going from the inside of the hub flange - the outer spokes must curve over the outside of the hub flange to get to the middle of the rim and have more of an angle bent into the spoke.

I have been working with Buchanan's to get the correct spoke sets made for the Savage. They have the rear set nailed.....and now I believe they have the front set perfected. They have been great to work with and as far as I know this is the first rear set they did for the Savage and only the 2nd front wheel. They made the sets from measurements of the hubs I sent - so they did not have the advantage of actually having a wheel and hub to see in person.

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John in Kalifornia

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #10 - 08/21/12 at 22:47:41

Sent an email to Ryca about spokes. They said the spoke kit they sell has inners and outers, two different bends.

The spokes I got from Mike's XS were all the same bend. They should have had a sharper bend for the outers so that the spokes could reach the center of the wheel.

Out of frustration, I came up with a solution. A piece of 1/8 by 1 steel strip with a hole in the end. Radiused the hole and put the spoke in. Then I used some telescoping tubing to make a bender tool. Inserted the tool in the spoke and made my own acute angle bend. There, now I got inner and outer spokes.

BEND TOOL IN ACTION

SPOKES SHOWING THE BENDS

Then I tried to assemble the wheel. It took me all day to do but I finally got it laced up. The spokes were marginally too short but I made them work. At one point I was so frustrated I was thinking of buying a whole 'nother spoke set but I just kept taking a break and coming back til the job was done. It's been over 40 (yes forty) years since I laced a wheel and had to relearn the drill.

After that, the truing of the wheel and installing the tire were easy, in comparison.

John in Kalifornia

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braveteacher Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 154	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #11 - 08/22/12 at 03:30:18 Well, if that is so they sent me the wrong spokes or the bend was so slight that you could not tell with the human eye...and it laced up just fine.
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teabowl13

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #12 - 08/22/12 at 09:58:52

It could be that the bend in the RYCA spokes is just looser overall. I don't know; I never used them.
For my rear wheel, I ordered a cheaper set of spokes from Taiwan (About $40 on Ebay if I recall) They were all the same bend. I had someone else lace the wheel, and he said it was a PITA, but that it worked. Looking at them now, they are definitely a smaller gauge than the stock spokes, or the ones I ordered from Buchannan's for the front wheel. (guy in Taiwan didn't have or make spokes to match the front.)
I may someday get real rear spokes for the rear wheel and have it re-done, but it's together for now, so I am dealing with other stuff...

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John in Kalifornia

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Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes
Reply #13 - 08/25/12 at 00:15:57

It took me all day to lace the rear wheel earlier this week. When I did the front wheel lacing today it went much faster. I think the difference was not just due to the old learning curve. The spokes for the front were from Buchanan's. I actually went to their place of business with the rim and hub and they custom made the spokes to fit.

Bottom line is that I think you would be better off with the Ryca spokes if you are converting to the 18 inch rear wheel. They say the length is 150mm, which is about 5mm longer that the ones from Mike's XS.

John in Kalifornia

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Spamy Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 224	Re: Dumb Question about Rear Spokes Reply #14 - 08/27/12 at 22:10:53 I still think the 124mm spoke pattern is better for the 18 in rear wheel. Im completely pleased with how mine came out. The 150mm (148) is taking the angle to a really ugly extreme. It will work, but its either going to tweak the spoke or you have to modify the hole. Just my 2 cents.
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