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Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result (Read 1087 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #30 - 08/19/12 at 08:15:45
 
If I was messin in a hinge like that, Id probably give some white lithium grease spray. Thats how I solve lots ot door hinge ( on cars) squeaking. You know, the old ones, with the star wheel that runs across that spring,,
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #31 - 08/19/12 at 08:18:54
 
To hurt a premium synthetic motorcycle oil you would have to over 400 degrees. Klotz,Amsoil, and other premium motorcycle oils.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #32 - 08/19/12 at 12:48:53
 
 
Our Savage engine isn't going to stress T-6 no matter  how hot it gets outside or what silly idling or slow moving nonsense we do in a parade or whatever.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/lancer-aftermarket-forced-induction-tech/574254-...
Beware of various residuals inside this dude's engine -- he had been swapping out oils trying to find one that would keep up to grade.

To STRESS a synthetic like T-6, you got to go find a high boost max tuned turbocharged engine.  Turbo oil feeds on these can get subjected to over 500o by the turbo unit when conditions are bad.  

(and this dude's conditions were bad)

This gentleman is trying to find an oil that can live in his turbocharged high HP car while he is reluctantly converting over to E-85 gasoline.

(now that is a sad sort of challenge to be sure)

This Blackstone report set shows what T-6 did for him, and it also kinda gives us a heads up for what E-85 might sorta mean to our engines when it gets here.

Why should it surprise us that T-6 can withstand 500o turbo oil feed temperatures?  I mean its not like there aren't a bunch of LARGE dual turbos set ups on big truck rigs that make a whole lot of miles on T-6 every month all over the country.

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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #33 - 08/19/12 at 12:57:52
 
 
What is life is like inside a turbocharger .....

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/turbocharger_technology.htm


BEARING SYSTEMS

The bearing system which supports the rotor assembly (turbine, shaft and compressor) resides in the turbocharger center housing. That bearing system must reliably position and support the rotor from zero up to speeds that can approach 150,000 RPM. In addition to the rotating loads on the bearings, there can be substantial thrust loads in either direction, depending on operating conditions. The bearing system also has an influence on critical rotor speeds, vibration and shaft instability.

The temperature of the turbo environment also presents a challenge to the bearing system. If the engine is shut down immediately following a run at high power output, the turbine and turbine housing temperatures are toward their upper limits, and suddenly all gas flow through the turbine stops and all oil flow through the center housing stops. All that heat must go somewhere, and an easy path is into the center housing. The resulting temperatures can easily cook the oil to a solid with potentially disastrous results on the next run.

The bearing system has evolved from the early days, when most were hydrodynamic sleeve and face bearings which required uninterrupted oil supply to avoid damage from loss of fluid film and from overheating.

Today's turbos feature dual ball bearing systems with very high bi-directional thrust capacities and reduced frictional drag, allowing faster spool-up times. To combat flat-spotting of bearings during heat-soak, an upgrade in bearing material from 52100 to M2 tool steel is also available.

The centrifugal force at very high speeds can cause steel balls to lift off the inner race, and to skid on the inner race during acceleration. To combat that issue, some manufacturers have switched over to bearings having ceramic balls, and others are moving in that direction. The ceramic ball bearings are also reported to be more resistant to damage from high temperatures.
Garrett Bearing Cartridge

Figure 7
Garrett Bearing Cartridge

Garrett uses an integrated dual ball bearing cartridge (Figure 7) which contains an angular-contact ball bearing at each end, providing a huge bi-directional thrust capacity, and which adds bending stiffness to the shaft system, helping to prevent critical speed issues.

Borg-Warner is developing a two-ball-bearing system which is expected to be fully ceramic.

A turbocharger lives in a terribly hostile environment. The turbine is driven by exhaust gasses that can exceed 1875°F (1025°C) and which are very corrosive. Exhaust valves experience those same corrosive, high-temperature gasses, but exhaust valves do not approach the peak temperature of the exhaust gas. An exhaust valve in a competition engine spends at least half of the time on the valve seat (production engines more like two-thirds of the time). Valves continuously transfer heat through the stem to the guide, and when they are seated, they rapidly transfer heat into the cylinder head through the valve seats. Those cooling paths keep exhaust valve temperatures well below EGTs.

The turbine wheel, however, lives in a continuous, high-velocity jet of those gasses. Although there is expansion across the turbine nozzle, therefore some cooling of the gasses, the temperature at the tips of the turbine rotor can approach exhaust gas temperatures. Further, the rotor system on many turbochargers operates well in excess of 100,000 RPM, and some approach 150,000 RPM. That imposes huge tensile loads from the centrifugal forces, as well as bending and vibratory loads. That environment requires the use of nickel-based superalloys for the turbine wheels. Those alloys can retain high strength values at these high temperatures.


Do you think your bike's engine heat stresses your oil more than a dull red hot on the inside big rig turbocharger?

I don't think so .....         Wink
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #34 - 08/19/12 at 13:47:13
 
I once had a Ford Escort RS Turbo, the Germany version, which was a homologation build for Touring Car Racing. Only 3,000 of them were made, as this was the requirement to participate in the series. They had to sell them for the street to qualify. It had a Garret T3 turbo with adjustable waste gate. The turbo was not water cooled, so whenever you came home from a full throttle Autobahn run, you had to take it easy the last few miles and when you got home let it idle for a few minutes to give the turbo time to cool off. If you didn't, you would ruin the turbo bearings, as the oil would burn to coal when not circulating and that would eat up the bearing over time. Lots of them did die because of that. RS Turbo drivers used to greet one another with a number of fingers, meaning on what number of Turbo they had in there already.
Mine never died, I sold it running like new. And I rode it hard. I remember one time I got the Turbo glowing red after a 25 mile full throttle run.
Any of you ever drove a half an hour or longer at top speed? You can where I was born. And mine had the waste gate adjusted from factory 0.3bar to 0.8bar, which was the max before you had to make changes to injection and ignition timing. Rule of thumb back then was every 0.1barmore equals about 10-15 horsepower more. This thing was a mean SOB. 25% visco differential lock and front wheel drive. What a machine...
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #35 - 08/19/12 at 19:17:21
 
It wasn't in a car, but yes, I have driven long periods of time at full throttle. Way back when I was in the Air Force, I drove a Sears Allstate Super Cruisaire (rebranded Vespa 125) from Biloxi, MS, to Tampa, FL. Most of the time was wide open. When I arrived, I saw the tip of the exhaust pipe was white inside, for the very first time. Usually, with the 1:16 gas/oil premix the pipe was black.

Most of 20 years ago I was cutting tall grass, using a Snapper riding mower with an 8 hp Briggs flat-head engine. It was getting dark, almost too dark to mow. I chanced to glance at the muffler and saw it glowing orange, with a blue flame about two or three inches long coming out of it. Yup, gasoline engines waste a LOT of heat.
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Eschew obfuscation.

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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #36 - 08/19/12 at 19:44:32
 
 
Riding with the Dragon group after dark, you can see our sporty muffler cores glowing red and see the blue-white acceleration ghost flame of the hard roll ons and the blatt puffs of flame from the roll-off deceleration blatts.  Our bikes "do the dragon thing" pretty good after dark, actually.  They are quite entertaining to watch.

Turbos live hard lives in that sort of exhaust heat, and some big Rotella lubed trucks have two large turbos, one on each side.   20 psi + boost pressures are being generated, using a bypass gate in the turbo itself to handle the overpressure.  

Think of what is going on compression-wise when you feed in a 20-25 psi intercooled air charge into the cylinder, then compress that charge 20:1 until it is literally red hot, then blast it with a fuel mist to start the combustion process which starts out red hot and goes way way up from there.  

The resulting superheated exhaust gas goes through the turbine side of the turbo, this cranks the 100-150,000 rpm shaft spin that forces the compressor blades to make the large volume 20-25 psi intercooled air charge for the next cylinder intake cycle.

And Rotella is there, on the cylinder walls and piston skirt, up in the head on the valve stems and guides and down inside the turbo itself, day in and day out ....  that robust brunette just keeps on ticking for a whole lot of miles.

So, Rotella T-6 is notorious for handling heat well, justifiably notorious with the people who really have to deal with some serious heat.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #37 - 08/19/12 at 21:36:41
 
I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella.  Smiley
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #38 - 08/19/12 at 21:39:15
 
I think the white lithium grease spray would grab a lot less dirt,
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #39 - 08/20/12 at 08:28:32
 
ralfyguy wrote on 08/19/12 at 21:36:41:
I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella.  Smiley


Use your spray chain lube on those!

Wait a minute......most Savage riders don't have any cans of chain lube. Grin
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #40 - 08/20/12 at 10:59:16
 
Dave wrote on 08/20/12 at 08:28:32:
ralfyguy wrote on 08/19/12 at 21:36:41:
I ought to lube the shift lever and kick stand pivots with Rotella.  Smiley


Use your spray chain lube on those!

Wait a minute......most Savage riders don't have any cans of chain lube. Grin

You'll laugh, but the Owner's Manual says to use motor oil.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #41 - 08/20/12 at 13:04:22
 
I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense.  It was 108 with a heat index of 112.  I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage.  However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it.  It was still in pretty good shape.  I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity.  However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #42 - 08/23/12 at 10:02:51
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 08/20/12 at 13:04:22:
I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense.  It was 108 with a heat index of 112.  I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage.  However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it.  It was still in pretty good shape.  I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity.  However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

 
I've been using 5W40 Rotella T6 for the past 2 oil and filter changes on my 06 S40 and can honestly say, so far, no adverse effects over the past 1,800 miles.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #43 - 08/23/12 at 13:17:06
 
tizzyfit wrote on 08/23/12 at 10:02:51:
Savage_Rob wrote on 08/20/12 at 13:04:22:
I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense.  It was 108 with a heat index of 112.  I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage.  However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it.  It was still in pretty good shape.  I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity.  However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

 
I've been using 5W40 Rotella T6 for the past 2 oil and filter changes on my 06 S40 and can honestly say, so far, no adverse effects over the past 1,800 miles.

If the motor didn't blow up that must be some good oil.
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Re: Rotella T6 Oil Abuse Result
Reply #44 - 08/23/12 at 16:11:33
 
bill67 wrote on 08/23/12 at 13:17:06:
tizzyfit wrote on 08/23/12 at 10:02:51:
Savage_Rob wrote on 08/20/12 at 13:04:22:
I had about the same results with Amsoil though my heat was not quite as intense.  It was 108 with a heat index of 112.  I'd already put about 300 miles on the oil and then added about 150 that day so it was nowhere needing to be changed based on mileage.  However, my oil temp gauge was in the red when I got home I thought I'd go ahead and dump it.  It was still in pretty good shape.  I have been using either 15W50 or 20W50 so far because I rarely ride in temps low enough to matter for the base viscosity.  However, I'm now wondering if the 5W40 Rotella T6 may not be better a better choice because of the weight too, specifically in light of the less-than-optimal circulation in the Savage's innards.

 
I've been using 5W40 Rotella T6 for the past 2 oil and filter changes on my 06 S40 and can honestly say, so far, no adverse effects over the past 1,800 miles.

If the motor didn't blow up that must be some good oil.



Now, I realize that Billish has a somewhat different syntax from English, but durned if that didn't sound like Bill was saying that Rotella T-6 must be some good oil .....

Anybody translate that any differently?


(With Billish, it is always good to get a second translation if it is anything important.)


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