SuzukiSavage.com - Keep believing the media & politicians

justin_o_guy2

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Keep believing the media & politicians
08/03/12 at 22:33:01

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by...

Now, let me get this straight, We pay for all these people to go out & play I Spy, they bring in the info, multiple agencies bring in the same results, No Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program,, BUT,, the media & the politicians keep beating the drums, Iran is a THREAT.. Yeaaa right,,,

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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srinath

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Re: Keep believing the media & politicians
Reply #1 - 08/04/12 at 11:20:11

That is nearly the same situation with economics.
Deficits are nearly irrelevant. We owe a whopping 15+ trillion. However all of that is US $. We can obliterate that in exactly 30 sec. How - well print it and mail it to china etc.
So what would that do. Most of the debt is owed to the opec group, chinese and us bond holders. It will in the next few years create inflation of about 6-8% over 10 years or so. That actually would be very acceptable, we have deflation now, its a fight to keep the deflation low. Worse yet we have inflation in consumables but deflation in durables. That could be adjusted to a full on inflation on all fronts.

Its effect on the us economy will be very minimal and rather good and bad, not just all bad. What will it do to the rest of the world.
That will be far more disastrous, and I'll explain.
99% of the worlds illegal trade happens in $. They are faced with a flood of $.
There are a good many countries who use the dollar - not a currency indexed to the $ but $ itself. Zimbabwe and a few others. Those countries will also feel the flood deflate their holdings.
The super wealthy that have tax evaded cash hidden away - they also feel the same flood. They lose and lose big.
There are countries who have indexed to the $. They can chose their poison and index to a new value, or keep it where it is and go down with the ship. We dont know who is gonna do what and we actually wont be affected one way or other. Example and I'll use the biggest of them: If china stays indexed at the same $, their goods will be unchanged in actual price, but a currency that is 6-8% weaker progressively will still be the cheapest on the block by far. If they float, their goods will start to get $$$. That will effectively kill their export advantage. BTW remember solyndra - china was subsidising their solar by over 50%. They are after a monopoly on solar. They want to kill the US energy sector. If we hand over freshly printed 15 trillion in paper, guess what, they will simply be deflated. They will not lend us $ to buy their crap. There goes their push to dominate the world.
Of course now everyone around the world and their brother wants to lend the US $ even though we are paying under 1.5% interest. No reason we cant do the print $ trick @ 20 trill, 25 trill, 30 trill ...
US will never become greece, italy, spain, portugul, or anything like any of those. They cant print euro, essentially we can. In fact the debt of the US can be 500 trillion and our economy can have a gdp of $1.00 and we can still wipe it out in seconds.

So why are we hearing so much crap about the debt being the next cliff on the horizon ... same reason why the Tea party has taken over the airwaves. $ ... rich people dont want their $ hidden in tax havens to be worthless much the same as they want to pay no taxes.

You scream it long enough you will find followers. That is it.

Cool.
Srinath.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Keep believing the media & politicians Reply #2 - 08/04/12 at 11:25:56 You know Iraq and Iran hate each other,We stupidly wrecked Iraq so they are no help against Iran.DUMB DUMB DUMB.
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thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6033 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Keep believing the media & politicians Reply #3 - 08/04/12 at 11:31:41 i should believe the nyt ?
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Keep believing the media & politicians
Reply #4 - 08/04/12 at 11:43:59

srinath wrote on 08/04/12 at 11:20:11:

That is nearly the same situation with economics.
Deficits are nearly irrelevant. We owe a whopping 15+ trillion. However all of that is US $. We can obliterate that in exactly 30 sec. How - well print it and mail it to china etc.
So what would that do. Most of the debt is owed to the opec group, chinese and us bond holders. It will in the next few years create inflation of about 6-8% over 10 years or so. That actually would be very acceptable, we have deflation now, its a fight to keep the deflation low. Worse yet we have inflation in consumables but deflation in durables. That could be adjusted to a full on inflation on all fronts.

Its effect on the us economy will be very minimal and rather good and bad, not just all bad. What will it do to the rest of the world.
That will be far more disastrous, and I'll explain.
99% of the worlds illegal trade happens in $. They are faced with a flood of $.
There are a good many countries who use the dollar - not a currency indexed to the $ but $ itself. Zimbabwe and a few others. Those countries will also feel the flood deflate their holdings.
The super wealthy that have tax evaded cash hidden away - they also feel the same flood. They lose and lose big.
There are countries who have indexed to the $. They can chose their poison and index to a new value, or keep it where it is and go down with the ship. We dont know who is gonna do what and we actually wont be affected one way or other. Example and I'll use the biggest of them: If china stays indexed at the same $, their goods will be unchanged in actual price, but a currency that is 6-8% weaker progressively will still be the cheapest on the block by far. If they float, their goods will start to get $$$. That will effectively kill their export advantage. BTW remember solyndra - china was subsidising their solar by over 50%. They are after a monopoly on solar. They want to kill the US energy sector. If we hand over freshly printed 15 trillion in paper, guess what, they will simply be deflated. They will not lend us $ to buy their crap. There goes their push to dominate the world.
Of course now everyone around the world and their brother wants to lend the US $ even though we are paying under 1.5% interest. No reason we cant do the print $ trick @ 20 trill, 25 trill, 30 trill ...
US will never become greece, italy, spain, portugul, or anything like any of those. They cant print euro, essentially we can. In fact the debt of the US can be 500 trillion and our economy can have a gdp of $1.00 and we can still wipe it out in seconds.

So why are we hearing so much crap about the debt being the next cliff on the horizon ... same reason why the Tea party has taken over the airwaves. $ ... rich people dont want their $ hidden in tax havens to be worthless much the same as they want to pay no taxes.

You scream it long enough you will find followers. That is it.

Cool.
Srinath.

Your complete & utter failure to grasp that printing more $$$ equals more debt amazes me, Every dollar created come From the Federal REserve BANK. Just as when you borrow from a bank, you owe principal And Interest, so do we, as a nation, since we gave away our sovereign right to create our own Money, so, the only way to "Print More $$$" is to Borrow more $$$,,

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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Paraquat Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2206	Re: Keep believing the media & politicians Reply #5 - 08/04/12 at 12:04:46 --Steve
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srinath

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Re: Keep believing the media & politicians
Reply #6 - 08/04/12 at 12:48:33

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/04/12 at 11:43:59:

Your complete & utter failure to grasp that printing more $$$ equals more debt amazes me, Every dollar created come From the Federal REserve BANK. Just as when you borrow from a bank, you owe principal And Interest, so do we, as a nation, since we gave away our sovereign right to create our own Money, so, the only way to "Print More $$$" is to Borrow more $$$,,

What ... that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

People dont have the ability to do what a federal govt does.
So, I'll make it simple -
Print $ and give to people who hold bonds. There ends the story.

The way US has been financing itself has been to issue more bonds. That way the people who buy bolds come back asking for the interest and we need to pay that and we still owe the capital.

The act of printing $ makes the money you have in your pocket worth less and less and less. Inflation is the side effect of printing $. Anyone who has hoards of $ sees their hoard become less and less valuable.

Go back and see the chinese reaction to US suggesting they will print $. They react as though we are cramming a nuts sandwich down their throat. They want us to borrow from them and buy their garbage. Hence the 1.5% interest. End of story.

However, for real - No sense printing $ now, we can always print it when interest rates are 8% and the debt is 30 trill.

Cool.
Srinath.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Keep believing the media & politicians Reply #7 - 08/04/12 at 17:41:02 The Cninese reaction is because IF we DO create more dollars, the ones they have will be devalued thru inflation, The rest of your reply is not worth replying to., Read Creature from Jekyll Island or watch G Edward Griffin interviews,,m Please, your understanding of how the fed works is shockingly lacking.,
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srinath

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Re: Keep believing the media & politicians
Reply #8 - 08/04/12 at 23:36:53

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/04/12 at 17:41:02:

The Cninese reaction is because IF we DO create more dollars, the ones they have will be devalued thru inflation,
The rest of your reply is not worth replying to.,
Read Creature from Jekyll Island or watch G Edward Griffin interviews,,m Please, your understanding of how the fed works is shockingly lacking.,

OK Correct on the chinese - and in fact anyone who has dollars or IOU's in dollars.

And hell no, printing $ does not increase the debt. Printing $ causes the interest rate to go up, which increases our payments on the debt. However if we print all of it and hand it over - Big if - we have to pay off the debt with printed $, not spend it on more bombs on random countries or more bridges to nowhere - so that interest has no bearing, that interest rate can be 1000% and we wont have any problems cos the amount will be 0. I dont think you're understanding what I am saying at all.

Printing $ bills, not dollar designated bonds is what I am talking about.

Many many many countries routinely print $, right at the begining of the FY they publish a budget, and if that budget has a deficit, they print it to cover it. All it does is cause inflation. These countries are typically those that dont have a market for their bonds. Spain's cost of borrowing recently went above 7%, supposedly unsustainable, and at that point if they were not euro dependent, they will have rolled out the presses.

Anyone can say "yea do this and that" and "its not worth replying". Sadly I have heard that very often usually from people who dont have a valid point.

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Srinath.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Keep believing the media & politicians Reply #9 - 08/05/12 at 01:46:35 And hell no, printing $ does not increase the debt, Yes. It does, stop arguing about it, you are wrong, You do not know how $$$ is created. It Is BORROWED just as YOU borrow money,, from a BANK.,
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srinath

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Re: Keep believing the media & politicians
Reply #10 - 08/05/12 at 06:26:47

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/05/12 at 01:46:35:

And hell no, printing $ does not increase the debt,

OK Thanks, we are clear on this.

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/05/12 at 01:46:35:

Yes. It does, stop arguing about it, you are wrong, You do not know how $$$ is created. It Is BORROWED just as YOU borrow money,, from a BANK.,

Yes It is borrowed, but it is borrowed only in the US and europe. The rest of the world does not do it that way. And there is no rule that says it has to be the way it is. In fact the US and europe way of doing that is a very recent phenomenon. I did not say "create money" I said print it.
BTW the fed still prints $. It is called the M3 - aka money supply. They have been printing at a slower pace cos they dont care for paying down the debt. Again it is no big deal, we can handle a lot more debt, heck pretty soon when the euro collapses we can pay 0 interest and be even better, can it be negative, yes it can in actual terms.
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Srinath.

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