Former skeptic does 180' on Climate Change...
Richard Muller: 'Humans Are Almost Entirely The Cause' Of Climate Change

"Humans are almost entirely the cause" of climate change, according to a scientist who once doubted that global warming even existed.

Last year, Richard Muller walked back years of climate change skepticism in light of new research. But Sunday's comments go one step further.

Muller wrote in an NYT op-ed that after exhaustive research, he believes that an increase of greenhouse gases can be closely linked to the rise in the earth's temperature.

Yea,, big deal,, no one cared a week ago when I posted a retraction by one of the first warmlarmists,

I dont deny science when I can be assured it isnt just an agenda writ large  by scientists. Climate gate,The raw data was destroyed.Too many things have taken away from them.

Starlifter wrote on 07/30/12 at 22:24:02:



+1

WebsterMark wrote on 07/31/12 at 05:36:00:


Unchecked population growth-with 7 billion people, millions of people are starving because there is not enough food to eat. Basic fact: if all the food were distributed evenly among the entire population, we couldn't produce enough to feed us all for very long.

Past the point of no return: The perma-frost is starting to melt, which will release massive amounts of methane into the atmosphere. Once that happens there will be no return to life as we know it. It is doubtful that even a COMPLETE stop in the production of greenhouse gasses RIGHT NOW will prevent this.
The ocean temperatures are rising, killing off massive amounts of plankton, which provide a large percentage of the oxygen we breathe, and is the base of the oceanic food chain, resulting in a greatly reduced fish population.
The clear cutting of rain forest to provide marginally arable land for food crops is reducing the other main source of oxygen.
I am sure the planet will survive once the main problem it is facing (us) has been delt with, (the planet WILL fight back) and I am sure the human race will survive, once our numbers have been greatly reduced.

The Right tends to argue that we are not the cause,.. so why do anything...
The point is,.. whether we are all, or part, or none, of the cause...  we need to do something...
We need to become more efficient,... less consumptive,.. and realistically prepare...  
Reduce development on the coasts...
use more renewable resources...  
develop better emergency response systems...
Culturally,.. become less consumptive ...
Plan for our children's children's children...

I can't believe Smart Cars only average 36mpg... they should get 60mpg... my 17 year old Metro gets 40+mpg, and seats 4 comfortably...

Splash: What do you define as science, is what we have been doing to estimate climate change, sea level rise, and habitat shift not science? Are you a trained scientist and therefore qualified to interpret the results of modern research? Do you know the intricate workings of the planet's ecosystem better than an ecologist?

Splash; is what we have been doing to estimate climate change.  No, it’s what others have been doing and telling you what it means. When logical inconsistencies arise, you blindly write nonsense like you’ve done here.

No I’m not a trained scientist and no I don’t know the intricate workings of the planet’s ecosystem better than an ecologist. However, I do know that trained scientist can be wrong and I know absolutely no one knows the workings of the planets econsystem.

As for the population comments lets look back to this:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338441755/0
Well webster I did the math and you can check me out if you want.

here it is:

Texas is 687,567,360 1/4 acre lots (268,581 sq miles or 171,891,840 acres)

there are 1,750,000,000 family units in the world (assuming family of 4 and world population of 7 billion)

that leaves over 1 billion families without a place to live in Texas. Even if we did 1/8 acre lot sizes there would still be millions of families without a spot in Texas.

I did check your math and replied below which I posted but I guess you didn’t read it. I said 3000 sq ft, you did your math for some reason using ¼ acre which was the difference.

268,581 square miles in Texas
27,878,400 square feet in each square mile
7,487,608,550,400 total square feet in Texas
7,000,000,000 world's population
1,750,000,000 number of family groups of 4 in world
5,250,000,000,000 number of square feet required if each group had 2000 sq ft house plus 1000 sq ft yard


An acre has 43640 square feet so a ¼ has over 10,000 sq ft. That’s the difference. If you want to give everyone a quarter of an acre, throw in Oklahoma and that will probably be enough.

Point is overpopulation is NOT the problem.

I believe all species no matter how big or little are critical, they all were designed to play important roles and fill important niches in their respective ecosystems.

Given that the vast majority of all species that have ever lived are extinct, that is a ridiculous comment.

But oil and gas are in short supply when compared to the demand

That’s just simply not true. There are plenty of oil supplies not being pursued which creates an artificial shortfall. For example; if we had a demand for 100,000 redwood trees per year and that represented 90% of the world’s total supply of redwood trees, in one year we would have a shortage because redwoods take a hundred years to grow and we can easily count the total supply. That situation does not exist with oil as we have sites with known oil not being drilled or not being operated at peak capacity. That’s not a real shortage, it’s an artificial one.

Also water is in short supply in some areas.

Water is in abundance in other areas. There is no water shortage, there are regional shortages because of usage, but that’s not a global water shortage.

thats not natural is it? Mark?

You’re typing your reply on a ‘unnatural computer using unnatural electricity’.  What is natural?

Point of no return does not necessarily mean uninhabitable, what it means is we will not be able to undo the damage done in our lifetime. This will be the loss of prime agricultural land, water sources, and clean air. Populations will drop at this point and the earth will go into a natural population/resource (similar to a predator/prey model) cycle.

I heard this 10 years ago. I heard this 20 years ago. I heard this 30 years ago. Every generation has their chicken little the world is going to end predictions. I like my odds.

I am not going anywhere near the common sense comments, as it is clear webster has none.

And no, you won’t go there because like Star and a few others, you can’t go there because it forces you to confront reality which you are trying to avoid so you resort to a smart ass comment. All the retorts you just listed above are just plain wrong and amount to nothing but political drivel. You don't really have a BS is Zoology do you?

The Right tends to argue that we are not the cause,.. so why do anything...
The point is,.. whether we are all, or part, or none, of the cause...  we need to do something...
We need to become more efficient,... less consumptive,.. and realistically prepare...  
Reduce development on the coasts...
use more renewable resources...  
develop better emergency response systems...
Culturally,.. become less consumptive ...
Plan for our children's children's children...

I can't believe Smart Cars only average 36mpg... they should get 60mpg... my 17 year old Metro gets 40+mpg, and seats 4 comfortably...

Sew; I told you my view. Yea, I think the gases we produce likely have a tiny impact on warming. However, 25,000 years ago most of Canada was covered in ice so clearly there has been warming of the earth’s temperature. I've seen enough counter arguments that I don't think we are impacting this warming to the degree the climate zealots think we are.

No one disputes the need to keep the environment clean and to move towards cleaner fuels. But when extremist make up stuff, many of us get suspicious about their real motives. Look at the ignorance behind the last replies from Splash and Teacher.  People like that ‘choose’ their side with this because their team captain told them what to believe and say. Conservative’s tend to think things through more and don’t blindly follow. When McCain came out and said he believed we needed to address Global Warming, he lost support from conservatives.