Bill, I think thats being a double lesbian, same here...

 So a gay marriage weakens the family structure now? I didn't realize that.. What about a gay marriage would weaken the family structure? If two people love each other, and wish to spend their lives together, this weakens the family structure? If two people that love each other adopt a child and raise it with love and support, that weakens the family structure?

 All the things you mentioned Webster do effect you and I, drug abuse, people will do some very imoral things strung out on drugs (Except for MJ, then only a box of twinkies is in danger), including break into your home, harm you and you family, ect.. How a person raises their child effects society as a whole..  

  Here is how and where I stand.. The act of two men making love repulses me, I know this is because of my sexual preference, I recognize this just as a gay person is repulsed by a man and a woman having sex. These acts do usually take place behind four walls, if they do take place outside these walls, we can choose not to look.

  I have a gay son, he has been with the same mate for seventeen years, they both have college degrees, and I love them, hold great pride in them. If one of them got hurt, one could not visit the other in ICU, if one passed, the other would not get anything from the others estate, they are not recognized as a couple by the state, or society. They cannot adopt, they cannot get a tax break, and they cannot share health insurance, they cannot do the many things a married couple can do. They cannot even have a civil union in this state thanks to Mr. Cathy's efforts.. Yes the groups he donates to put up billboards throughout the state condemning the last referendum for civil unions.

 Not that long ago in our history a Black and White marriage was not allowed, women and blacks could not vote, people were not allowed to join together to achieve better working conditions, and people were killed because of their beliefs and skin color. I see actions such as what Mr. Cathy is doing a reflection of these sad times in our history, I would think this nation would have progressed past this ignorance.. Religious bigotry is still hate...

also denying same sex marriage, which is something we allow some pretty low life people to do, is in a way putting down of homosexuals, saying that these drug users/abusers/pushers can get married but these people over here just because they are homosexual??  really??? that's the class structure you are representing?  hetrosexual people get to be married but can be the scum of the earth, but upstanding great people who happen to be homosexual can't?? that's some crazy thinking

Let em marry if they want to, I have enough problems with my own life, why worry about someone elses. When they get enough of each other and go for a legal divorce they're gonna find out marriage aint all its cracked up to be  

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/05/12 at 15:01:02:


I appreciate that.. I really do...

...one more thing to your point... Do you think this social engineering by limiting marriage to straights, will have your desired effect of keeping up the birthrate?...
The only way I can see this result is that some straight people will have to turn gay, or gay people will have to turn straight ...

I mean,.. I don't like sweet potatoes... and banning them, or making them free, ain't gonna' change that... I still ain't gonna' eat 'em...
Yukky things, sweet potatoes... ...

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/05/12 at 18:41:43:


and gay marriage isn't going to change that

So a gay marriage weakens the family structure now? I didn't realize that.. What about a gay marriage would weaken the family structure? If two people love each other, and wish to spend their lives together, this weakens the family structure? If two people that love each other adopt a child and raise it with love and support, that weakens the family structure?

Retread;  The first thing that comes to mind how actions weaken family is to simply look to Europe. Look at Greece, Spain and Italy. Over the past few decades, they have become more and more secular. Over that same time period, the birthrate for those countries has fallen below replacement rate. Historical Christianity puts a premium on marriage and child rearing. Secularism does not and it’s no coincidence the population is dwindling in these three countries. In my children’s lifetime, the nationalities of Greeks, Spaniards and Italians will continue to fall. In short, these three nationalities are in all likelihood, doomed. That happened because of the waning influence of traditional religions. Gay marriage will never be on that large a scale since the % of the population is so low, but nonetheless, I believe it will have a negative influence.


Not that long ago in our history a Black and White marriage was not allowed, women and blacks could not vote, people were not allowed to join together to achieve better working conditions, and people were killed because of their beliefs and skin color. I see actions such as what Mr. Cathy is doing a reflection of these sad times in our history, I would think this nation would have progressed past this ignorance.. Religious bigotry is still hate...

There is practically zero commonality between the Civil Rights Movement and what we call today Gay Rights. Zero. A racist looks at a black man and judges him by the color of his skin and not the content of his character. (sound familiar…) Judging gay marriage involves making a decision based upon agreed to actions and behavior. Those of us against gay marriage have decided it is a step we are not willing to make.  It is not bigotry. There is nothing in common between Civil Rights and gay rights.

I have a gay son, he has been with the same mate for seventeen years, they both have college degrees, and I love them, hold great pride in them. If one of them got hurt, one could not visit the other in ICU, if one passed, the other would not get anything from the others estate, they are not recognized as a couple by the state, or society. They cannot adopt, they cannot get a tax break, and they cannot share health insurance, they cannot do the many things a married couple can do. They cannot even have a civil union in this state thanks to Mr. Cathy's efforts.. Yes the groups he donates to put up billboards throughout the state condemning the last referendum for civil unions.

As I said before, I have no problem with civil unions that for all practically purposes gives two people of the same gender equal rights as a normal marriage. (and yes, I used the word normal on purpose) I think they should if that’s what they want to do. And I admit my demands it not be called marriage on one hand while admitting on the other had it is legally identical may seem counter to one another, but I don’t think so. Like I said, I would be against anything that weakens marriage in anyway, which I think is something fundamental to our society.

Finally, I am not familar with Carthy's political actions nor do I care. the man made some comments that got picked up by the liberal media in an attempt to help their president, that's all. If obama had been ahead by a wide margin in the polls, you wouldn't even know Carthy's name.

Fear of under population? You mean a place where the worlds resources can support the population? Wow, thats kind of a new concept, don't you say? I really don't think when God said be fruitful and multiply he meant to breed like rabbits with no thought to how to feed the masses. Europes secularism is not the reason for the drop in childbirth, it has to do with birth control availability, and family units not wanting to have children until later. I really think its a reach to say that they are doomed.. We have children without homes, they are abused, they are hungry, and growup into lifestyles that threaten our society, yet some are worried about gay marriage? Wow...

As mentioned before, we do hot have a shortage of world’s resources, we still have an abundance. And yes, Spain’s population is shrinking due to very low birthrates and yes, it’s due to secularism. This is the reality of the situation. When families have children later in life, they have fewer. When they have fewer, population declines at a known rate. Unless it reverses, Spain will gradually be taken over by immigrants from other countries and cultures. Spain as it‘s know today, will cease to exist.

Its about fear, they are scared of these groups because they have not taken the time to try to understand them, and they do not even understand their own sexuality. That step you talk about not being willing to take involves looking at yourself in the mirror..
groups because they have not taken the time to try to understand them    about not being willing to take involves looking at yourself in the mirror..

Why are you so sure I have not? What if other people have?  I think I articulated a very reasoned argument against gay marriage, but you disagree with me. Are you calling me a hate filled bigot whose afraid to look in the mirror because I see it differently?

As I said before, civil unions are not done in my state, it went to referendum two years ago, it failed because of Mr. Cathy and others efforts. Mr. Cathy and others like him wrap their fear and prejudice up into a nice little religious package and call it golden, but it stinks of ignorance and robs a group of people of a basic freedom. Marriage is a joining of two people, it was weakened by divorce, it was weakened by anullments, it was weakened by marriage for overnight sex, it was weakened by drugs, alcohol, inability to support a family, and family violence, it would be a reach to say two gays being married would weaken it any worse.... Nuff said...

So, if they allowed civil unions in your state, would you be okay with it? Would that be the end of the ‘fight’ for equality?

I never said gay marriage had any connection to Spains loss of population.


If you did look in the mirror you would not hold the conclusion you do, a conclusion is always formed when you stop thinking

wait a minute, can't I say the same for you? Haven't you 'stopped thinking' on the topic? You're mind is made up, isn't it? Why is it you're the open minded one and I'm the closed minded one when we both say we've examinied the issue and came to a conclusion we are satisifed with?

I believe If you sat and talked with a few gays, you would change that conclusion. I know several gay people and have spoken to them. My son had a gay man in his wedding that my wife and I just adore to death. If Phil said he needed help or a place to stay, I'd give him anything he wanted. As far as Cathy, I think its a stretch to call him a hate filled bigot, but honestly, until this hit, I didn't even know his name.

but not satisfied until equal rights were acheived

what rights? what, other than marriage?