SuzukiSavage.com - How hot is too hot? (oil war again)

Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #60 - 07/19/12 at 06:44:07

1200 PPM (both advertised and checked as real)

We gots to break you in on VOA's and UOA's at Bobistheoilguy.com.

They NEVER trust anybody's advertised ZDDP numbers unless they do a Virgin Oil Analysis to verify they are not lying to the public (some brands do, or rather you can say that they changed formulations without notifying their customers). Mobil 1 has done this trick several times now.

Then they run the oil for their intended miles up to change time and then they do a Used Oil Analysis to see what the numbers dropped down to and how much of what sorts of wear metals the oil picked up from wear in the engine.

Just type "VOA Rotella T-6" into your browser and Bobistheoilguy.com will pop up at the top of the results with a series of VOA from most recent on back.

Here is an example.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2330040

The dark column is Blackstone's average results for all HDEO oils, which have a lot higher ZDDP levels than car oils do, generally speaking. And Rotella products have more ZDDP than the HDEO average.

We get a lot of information from Bob -- there are a whole lot of folks who pay $35 a test to watch Rotella products like a hawk to keep Shell from screwing up and changing it -- they like it the way it is now.

It is interesting, only just lately has Klotz or most of the standard dino motorcycle oils realized they have to have more ZDDP than their car products do to keep motorcycle engines healthy. Now they are treating like an advertising war (which it is, of course).

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #61 - 07/19/12 at 07:21:22

OF.....Those were the kind of numbers I was hoping for....not only for my Savage - but my Diesel tractor as well. It seems that the ZDDP level is one of the major differences between auto oils and motorcycle oils, as bikes don't have rollers on the rocker arms and need higher ZDDP levels to survive. It may also be that the roller and ball bearings on the cranks need the higher ZDDP levels as well.

The specifications for oil can change so quickly, as the Government keeps passing new regulations and requirements to keep us all.......healthy/confused/safe?

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Someday I will be old......But not today!

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Charon Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1811 Harvard, NE Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #62 - 07/19/12 at 08:58:36 Many newer motorcycles now have catalytic converters in their exhausts. I do not know whether these cats are of the type that can be damaged by phosphorous. If so, things might become interesting with the conflict between the needs of the cats and the needs of the wet clutches.
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bill67

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #63 - 07/19/12 at 09:23:30

bill67 wrote on 07/19/12 at 06:34:36:

Klotz mx-4 has 1400 zddp in it.

MX-4 is Klotz newest oil it is 1400 zddp there other oil might not be.

Bill is being honest here, Klotz doesn't tell you what is in their oils, ever.
They only claim ZDDP content levels in one of their umpteen brands of 4 stroke oil, and that is because it is an advertising gimmick to them.

Bobistheoilguy doesn't have much data on Klotz because the poor suckers that buy it always do it on faith and they don't believe in FACTS or DATA.

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« Last Edit: 07/19/12 at 13:20:15 by Oldfeller--FSO »

william h krumpen

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #64 - 07/19/12 at 09:31:00 OF if you were to use Amsoil,Which would you use their motorcycle oil or their diesel oil.
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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #65 - 07/19/12 at 13:00:01

You must be talking to Verslagen about that Amsoil stuff, not me. He has actually used a whole case of Amsoil brand oil and he simply reports that it is oil, it gets dirty just as quick and it exits his engine just as fast.

Why in the world would I pay 3-4 times the going price for a very very good oil just to buy something that says it is made from dirt right there in the name?

Am Soil

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #66 - 07/19/12 at 13:01:14 bill67 wrote on 07/19/12 at 09:31:00: OF if you were to use Amsoil,Which would you use their motorcycle oil or their diesel oil. OF is this question to hard for you to answer
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bill67

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #67 - 07/19/12 at 13:10:09

No, I think I answered it plenty clearly. In what reality would I (me, Oldfeller) be plunking down $13-$15 a quart for Amsoil oil products of any sort or type or description? Or Klotz, for that matter?

I don't live in your reality Bill, most of the rest of us don't either.

I would splurge and buy the gallon of Rotella T-6 that outperforms your Klotz and pay less than half the price of your Klotz when doing so.

I think the list just hiccuped again ..... "Bill" was talking sense there for jest a second or so.

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william h krumpen

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #68 - 07/19/12 at 13:15:07 I think Ive got OF hiding behind his wifes apron.OF's got klotz on his brain hes writing in red now.
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Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12671 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #69 - 07/19/12 at 13:18:02 Wow, I won't answer his whacked out hypothetical question that has me paying $15 a quart for Amsoil oil and now I'm hen pecked? Ok Bill, whatever you say buddy.
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splash07 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 911 Charleston, SC Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #70 - 07/19/12 at 13:21:56 Did any one even answer poor coaxial's questions????? Here let me remind you, as I am sure many here have forgotten what with the oil firefight going on and all....... "How hot is too hot?" well.......hhmmmmmmmmmm?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #71 - 07/19/12 at 13:23:22 If Versy wanted to test diesel oils why didn't he use Klotz and Amsiol diesel oil.
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bill67

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #72 - 07/19/12 at 13:26:01

splash07 wrote on 07/19/12 at 13:21:56:

Did any one even answer poor coaxial's questions?????

Here let me remind you, as I am sure many here have forgotten what with the oil firefight going on and all.......

"How hot is too hot?"

well.......hhmmmmmmmmmm?

OF thinks it to hot now I hope he don't jump off the roof

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william h krumpen

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #73 - 07/19/12 at 13:29:14 Help Help Versy what do I do Bills got me cornered.
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verslagen1

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #74 - 07/19/12 at 13:58:46

bill67 wrote on 07/19/12 at 09:23:30:

bill67 wrote on 07/19/12 at 06:34:36:

Klotz mx-4 has 1400 zddp in it.

MX-4 is Klotz newest oil it is 1400 zddp there other oil might not be.

OF Quote:

Bill is being honest here, Klotz doesn't tell you what is in their oils, ever.
They only claim ZDDP content levels in one of their umpteen brands of 4 stroke oil, and that is because it is an advertising gimmick to them.

Bobistheoilguy doesn't have much data on Klotz because the poor suckers that buy it always do it on faith and they don't believe in FACTS or DATA.

If anybody cares to have 2 year old vintage virgin oil analized... I will donate what I got for the effort.

Bill? got $35 burning a hole in your pocket?

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