SuzukiSavage.com - How hot is too hot? (oil war again)

Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #45 - 07/18/12 at 16:06:59

Why Bill, I would be happy to oblige you.

Google is an amazing tool once you get past the easy-use front end. You can type in the Klotz buzz words for their four stroke products and then tell Google to start at Jan 1 of a year and show all results up through the end of that year.

Interesting thing is it doesn't show any 4 stroke results at all until 2001 to 2002, and 2002 is mostly talking two stroke and model airplane fuel, with only a single product (a 10w40) showing up for a four stroke engine.

2012-2002 = 10 years

Grin

Here's your search results for 2001 to 2002.

http://www.google.com/search?q=klotz+v-twin+techniplate&hl=en&client=firefox-...

Reading the results yields all sorts of little tidbits when you stop and read them -- Klotz made all their claims for their Techniplate 4 stroke product based off their two stroke product testing (there was no data specifically based off any 4 stroke engine testing).

It was like they had a 2 stroke product and simply talked people into pouring it into 4 stroke dirt bikes and ATVs.

At $14.94 a quart no less.

It was oil, after all ......

They could have at least said it could make a smoking 4 stroke dirt bike with bad rings smoke a bit less noticeably

(and smell better, I always liked the way Klotz smelled).

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« Last Edit: 07/18/12 at 17:38:55 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #46 - 07/18/12 at 16:09:02

My Savage has been on the road with either CAR 20W50 or DIESEL 15W40 in it since the first oil change. Except once, when I made the mistake of using a 10W40 synthetic that vanished while at a rally. Literally the sump was dry, took two quarts (which is all the more I ever put in it).

Bike is a 1998. Speedometer gave up the ghost almost 10 years ago with 17K and change on the odometer.

I have never had to adjust the valves. No noises from the timing chain area. No glitter in the oil. Still run the factory clutch discs since they are still good.

Used a lot of motorcycle synthetics in my liquid cooled VN800A. 44K miles in 18 months of ownership. Sold it to the junkyard when the bottom end started hammering.

Hmm, my air-cooled throwaway is internally perfect at 14 years old, my liquid cooled go anywhere do anything was done at 4 years old (bought it used)...

I'll stick to diesel strength oils. Even in my 3 cylinder gas burner John Deere, a 1020 UL on its 5th decade of use...

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bill67

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #47 - 07/18/12 at 16:24:37

I called the Klotz company and said I used there 2 stroke oil,But just seen lately they had four stroke oil,And ask him when they started making 4 stroke oil he said back in the 1960s.The main reason I check Klotz was I found this place 6 months before I bought my bike and saw how many people were having trouble with the motor.My wife went 24000 miles on her GN 400 no troubles no valve adjustment or any problems.So I decided I better get the best oil I could get.

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arteacher

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #48 - 07/18/12 at 16:31:40

I use Rotella T6 and have noticed that the bike runs cooler, quieter, and doesn't use as much oil in the hot weather.
When I got the bike I used Suzuki oil for the first year.
The only experience with Klotz I have is in model airplane engines which don't have rings (the small ones anyways) and racing fuel- for two stroke go kart and dirt bike engines.
When I started making my own model airplane fuel I used castor oil- the engines seemed to last longer.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #49 - 07/18/12 at 16:33:08 Suzuki oil is shell oil,Yamaha mobil.
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ralfyguy

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #50 - 07/18/12 at 16:47:46

arteacher wrote on 07/18/12 at 16:31:40:

I use Rotella T6 and have noticed that the bike runs cooler, quieter, and doesn't use as much oil in the hot weather.

I have the same experience. I switched to T6 some two years and 7,000 miles ago and haven't looked back since. I checked the valves twice in between and there was nothing to adjust. Right from the start the engine sounded better, especially when hot. The valves are still as quiet as the last time I adjusted them, so i won't even bother checking them again. There seems to be no need to do so. The bike never ran better than now.
I will never put a different oil in there again, it just doesn't get any better than this.

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #51 - 07/18/12 at 17:58:26

Now that we have Wiggly Bill's objections all answered, we'll now poke him in the arse with the nasty red hot smoking poker thing ....

Bill, from the very get go 4 stroke Klotz has cost over $13 a quart retail (before shipping). You say you can buy it cheaper, but nobody else has ever beat $9.99 a quart (plus shipping on top of that). Generally, after shipping you still pay $12-13 a quart for the red Klotz stuff no matter how carefully you buy it.

We've shown it doesn't work as good as Rotella T-6, which we all can buy at our local WalMart -- or order it on WalMart online to be shipped to our local WalMart store, so you can pick T-6 up locally at the same price no matter if stocked or not. Rotella T-6 can also be picked up at most decent auto parts stores at about $3 more a gallon than the WalMart price.

Let's see, let's do some basic math now ....

(sorry Bill, more facts and data stuff again, sorry about the rash its gonna give ya to go along with them fresh crispy oozing poker burns)

Two quarts of Klotz at $13 each = $26 for a single oil change

A gallon of Rotella T-6 (two oil changes) = $21.36

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=rotella+t6+5w40

So, can we say the good T-6 stuff cost less than half as much as the red koolaid stuff that Bill pushes? And is many times more available?

Cheesy

Hissssss goes the red hot poker as it hits the quivering Billium meat

Aieeeee !!! goes the wiggly Billium

Grin

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bill67

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #52 - 07/18/12 at 18:26:19

I was in business all my life,buying cheap stuff doesn't work out in the long run,They say they don't use as much oil,My doesn't use a thimble full in 3500 miles.Mine shifts a lot smoother than with Shell Suzuki oil. If I didn't use Klotz it would be Amsoil or Mobile One motorcycle oil.Never would I ever think of using and oil make for a watercooled diesel engine when you can buy motorcycle oil made for air cooled engines.I've had a lot of cars trucks motorcycles snowmobiles bobcats lawnmowers generators,I'm 73 and had a lot of experience and believe in taking the best care of tools and machinery.

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william h krumpen

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #53 - 07/18/12 at 22:24:06

Oh my, where oh where to begin? He says he has lots of experience and he believes in taking the best care of tools and machinery .....

wow.

This is Bill67, who has never adjusted the valves in any of his bikes, except that one time on 1 MotoGuzzi and that was what, 28 years ago?

Bill, you haven't used any oil in your Savage nor have you changed it in 3500 miles, but you also freely admit you don't put but 500 miles on your bike in a year and that means you have had the bike for over 7 years now and have done nothing to it in the way of maintenance at all.

Roll Eyes

Bill, Savage maintenance expert extra-ordinary

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #54 - 07/18/12 at 23:37:27 bill67 wrote on 07/18/12 at 16:33:08: Suzuki oil is shell oil,Yamaha mobil. I didn't know that. So zuk oil is rebranded rotella. I've been using the right stuff all along. thanks for the info bill.
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28642 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #55 - 07/19/12 at 00:11:08 Did you know?... Klotz sells a chapstick?... No,.. really!...... Pucker up, baby... I can go all day... ... ...
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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #56 - 07/19/12 at 04:45:34

I tried t-6 in my 250 virago.....it rattled alot and the shifting was notchy so out it came and in went Mobile 1 20-50....no rattle and the shifting was better.

55k miles on my Kaw Z-1 used mobile 1.

I have a suzuki guad 250 i bought new, it now has 4500 hard working farm miles on it most of which were a couple hundred yards at a time. After breakin i have used only Mobile 1 syn oil in 12 years i have only had to adjust valves 1 time. This thing has pulled trucks cattle the tractor, logs hay, deer you name it hard miles! Probably the best vehicle i have ever owned!

Everyone has an oil story, read study use your best judgement run what you want. Pay for good oil now or pay the mechanic later..... Roll Eyes

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #57 - 07/19/12 at 05:03:09 Mobile 1 is very good oil been using in my cars and truck since it came out.
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Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again)
Reply #58 - 07/19/12 at 06:07:46

I have not yet been converted to the Rotella T.......not knowing the level of ZDDP level is what is holding me back. The ZDDP is comprised of Zinc and Phosphorus and helps prevent scuffing of metals surfaces under high pressure. When catalytic converters where becoming fouled by the ZDDP the amounts of it were reduced in oils - and this started problems with cam and lifter wear in flat tappet engines. Motorcycle oils have kept the high levels of ZDDP of around 1,200 ppm - while automobile oils have about half the ZDDP levels of motorycle oils.

Below is a link to the Shell web page for T6.....and here is a qoute from that page:
"Shell Rotella® T6 is formulated with reduced levels of ash, phosphorous and sulfur to help maintain the efficiency of the latest vehicle-emissions technologies."

Shell Link:
http://www.shell.com/home/content/rotella/products/t6/

Now it may be the the Rotella T6 works great....and I won't argue with the success that people are having with it. I really would like to know how much ZDDP is in the oil before I make the switch. It could be that even with reduced levels of ZDDP....the diesel oil may still have enough ZDDP to provide protection to our cams and rocker arms. So far my search on the internet has not found any reliable sources of the ZDDP level.

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: How hot is too hot? (oil war again) Reply #59 - 07/19/12 at 06:34:36 Klotz mx-4 has 1400 zddp in it.
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