SuzukiSavage.com - "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War

ralfyguy

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #30 - 07/20/12 at 15:47:04

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 07/20/12 at 13:33:16:

Shush now, I'd be more worried about getting it on the rim without having the bead break and go bloowie on you.

Several dark sider tires are riding around the list right now. MMRanch and I ran a darksider on all the early Dragon Runs.

Look at the pic below, there isn't much difference between a new modern darksider's starting profile and that of a normal "worn out" rear tire's profile.

Do they ride differently -- yes -- but after a month or two your hind brain gets used to it and it feels normal to you. I ground off the stock muffler mounting bracket on my bike and flatted my acorn nuts using a darksider tire, so you can heel over just as far as you normally can with any other tire.

And no, they don't ride up on the sides like a bike tire does -- the belt construction keeps the tread more flat to the road and the sidewall does the flexing, just like it does on the front end of your car when you go around a sharp turn.

What kind is the old tire in that pic?

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #31 - 07/20/12 at 16:40:52

Dunlop Cruise Max 140/90-15 is the worn out one.

This is the new one.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/tiresResultAction.do?year=&make=&model=&vehicl...

I bought mine through Walmart, but these Carid guys actually have a much better technical write up on the tire and they have videos of the Nexen mgf and testing facilities so if you are curious, take a look.
(video link is right under the three views of the tire in the upper left hand corner of the page)

Nexen means "next century" in Korean and looks like they are mainly a sports car tire company. This tire was not intended for a VW Beetle -- I think it was meant for more of a Mini Cooper and TR6 instead.

http://www.carid.com/nexen-tires/sb802-165-80r15-453665.html

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« Last Edit: 07/22/12 at 06:41:09 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #32 - 07/21/12 at 07:57:59

OK, got the Nexen on the bike with relatively little trouble. It is physically smaller than the Nankang I had had on previously, so it required no tweeky fiddles at all -- just dropped into the space that was opened up for the older bigger tire just dandy.

Remember, my bike is modded to handle a large tire. (click here) Fitting MUCH Larger Rear Tire

Start mileage is 19,737
Start tread depth is .310"
Shipping & mounted cost included is $55.64 (I included the sales tax)

Got my pony in the gate boys -- where are yours? You might not be able to beat me, but you certainly can beat all the other bike tires.

I see Badass94CAD as the major bike tire contender, coming in with a fresh Metzler 880 just installed this week.

Jack650 will come in with another darksider tire of a different brand, so we shall see how that goes as the years roll on by.

Bryan will come in with a Perelli.

Still need a Shinko

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« Last Edit: 07/21/12 at 18:13:44 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #33 - 07/21/12 at 10:46:49

Oooooh, this Nexen tire is gonna be nice.

It has no squared off feel to it at all and it is less "odd feeling" at changeover than the last new motorcycle tire I just put on and wore out.

So far I've had it up to 70 just to see if it had any wobbles and so far so good, nothing strange has occurred.

Cornering is good and the wear scuff is staying well within the tread pattern at the bottom edge of the tire (says the thread is staying relatively flat going around corners). Right now I am running 34 psi as a start spot -- I will raise and lower it a couple of pounds and run it that way for a consistent month or so seeing if there are any sweet spots to be found.

Goldwing Folks have filmed darksider tires going around chassis scraping turns and the contact patch generally covers from tire mid point to tire edge then it rolls over to the opposite mid point to tire edge as you go through a set of S curves. They do lift up a little bit, but only about half a tire's worth which is OK as the actual tire contact patch is still HUGE compared to the bike tire's little bitty radial contact patch.

Contact patch is always a lot bigger than a bike tire as the darksider tire conforms to the road better (that is what steel belted radials and matching sidewalls are all about, conforming to the road and generating grip force while resisting rolling wear). Cornering and braking in the wet is good as well, any of the "all season radials" are tested extensively and each tire has to earn its wet grip rating.

We had a downpour on Sunday afternoon, so I put on my shorts and a tee shirt and went for a ride in the middle of it. My rear tire gripped to the ability of my new rear brake shoes (not fully seated yet) to actuate the brakes in driving rain stopping tests -- there was no slide. Cornering was fine too, but you can't ride super fast in the rain anyway as you can't see very well with the drops blasting in your face. This is safe enough I think.

This Nexen is an all season tire with a Wet Traction Rating of "A"
(only "AA" is better in the wet and those are generally special purpose rain/snow tires)

Grin

me happy !!

======================

I'm happy, but car tires are still not recommended to anyone because quite simply they are dangerous to mount on the rim. "Break you and bleed you" sort of dangerous.

They also require extensive mod work to get enough room under the fender for them to fit into the limited space back there.

Just because I'm happy won't keep you from bleeding OR having to do all the countersinking, drilling, tapping, axle spacer fiddling and brake drum actuator extending. Fitting a MUCH larger tire is a lot of work.

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« Last Edit: 07/25/12 at 09:29:35 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12636 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Reply #34 - 07/21/12 at 12:18:19 First pass at the tracking spreadsheet ..... Who else is proud of their rear tire and thinks they get good tire mileage ?
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youzguyz

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Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War
Reply #35 - 07/23/12 at 07:56:25

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 07/16/12 at 12:52:34:

We'll make the reporting rules simple, to get into the betting pool you report your odometer mileage and current tread depth and what you really paid total for the rear tire (include the shipping & mounting please). Then each year you measure your tread depth and report your odometer mileage.

Can't say I like your calculation method completely.

Shipping, OK, or tax if you bought it locally. But mounting? Some people mount their own.. no cost. Or how much is their labor worth?

Come to think of it.. how much is the extra time, effort, etc, add to the work you did for the " Fitting MUCH Larger Rear Tire"? Does that figure into the cost of your Dark Side Tire? OH.. you say you only had to do that ONCE.. OK.. and how many Dark Side tires will you be putting on during the life of your motorcycle?

I run Metzler ME 880. If you want, I can give you the mileage I put on them according to my maintenance records. And I can tell you that I never let them wear past the wear markers on the tires.
How many thousandths that is between new and that point, I did not bother to measure.
If those figures are of worth to you, I will gladly provide. But, I don't care to measure my tires on any kind of basis. It's not that I'm not curious, it's that I don't care to run any other kind of tire. I tried a few, and I like ME 880..
Silly me.. sticking with what works for me.

Oh.. and please don't edit my post. Feel free to quote as you wish, but do it on your OWN post. Thankyouverymuchhaveaniceday!! Cheesy

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Badass94Cad Senior Member Offline This space for rent Posts: 313 Mass-->Jerz-->PA! Gender:	Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Reply #36 - 07/23/12 at 10:19:15 I'll try to post my info tonight. Been real busy lately. Judging by the chart, I'll definitely be the high price! BTW, are we including new tubes in the price, or no? I figure no, but throught I'd ask.
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verslagen1

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #37 - 07/23/12 at 11:46:24

I don't think including the installation cost is a fair comparison as no one is going to install your darksider tire for you, too big a liability risk for you. Yet with a m/c specific tire you have a choice.

Did you include the cost of the tube? (I don't have one Tongue

)

With my D401 hurly rear tire, I got a year and a couple of months, let's say 14000 for $110, shipping free, installation free.

And my metz was only installed a couple of months ago, so check back with me in a year or two. Cool

OF Hey, what are your odometer and tread depths on that nearly brand new Metz and do you want to tell us what you paid for it? Metzlers are NICE tires after all and will run and run and run.

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« Last Edit: 07/23/12 at 13:23:36 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #38 - 07/23/12 at 13:20:06

Tubes, if you put one in each time feel free to include it in the total cost.

I reused the tube from the tire before since it was only 2 years old and never even thought about tubes as an adder cost as I tend to run them to failure. But you are right, a new tube is part of the cost of the tire's life if you always replace it every time. If you want me to be fair, I'll charge myself half the cost of the tube at a 50% pro rated $3 (bought 3 on ebay for $18).

As far as adding the cost of the tire wheel well mod, that cost $8.94 in bolts and was done 3 tires ago in 2007 so I think of it is "part of the environment" six years later. But if you want totally fair I'll include a third of the hardware amount at a pro-rated $3.

So, I will tack on $6 to my tire and let the math roll it on out to ..... $61.64 total purchase price which translates to $0.20 per tread thousandth. It added another 2 cents to my wear rate cost.

===========

Hey, I believe in fair. Grin

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youzguyz

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #39 - 07/23/12 at 14:04:41

I still don't think the cost of getting the tire on the bike should be a part of this analysis.
You didn't mention the amount of labor for doing the Dark Side Mod to the bike.. only the amount for the parts.. piddling.
Do we mention the money spent vs the aggravation saved on having the tires put on the wheels? What about putting the wheels on the bike?

Some people pull the wheels, take them to somewhere, have the tires mounted, then put the wheels back on themselves. (That's me)

Some people just take the whole bike to the shop and have them do all the labor.

Some people do it all themselves. If so, what about the price of any special tools to make that happen? (Gonna buy me an umpteen gigiillion dollar tire machine, and the hugemongous air compressor to make it work so I can change my own tires out without busting a knuckle). Yes, I exaggerate.

Yes, I understand it is "Mileage/Cost per mile", but it doesn't tell you which tire gets the prize if you factor in the price of all the different methods of shipping, the various labor that can be added, or the aggravation and mayhem of the pieces you do yourself!

Yes, I understand it is your war, and you will slant the body count as you desire. Just my opinion that the way to do it:
1. Person says they have a tire.
2. Find out the best, worst, or average cost to land that tire in their hands. Use the website(s) of your choice. (Price will also vary depending on sales, how far to ship, if you ship, or did you just buy it from your buddy down the street). So, use as few websites as you can and calculate based on shipping to YOU.

It may not be perfect, but it is closer than somebody having to pay shipping to outer Bavaria from Timbuktu if that is the closest place that has it, while the next guy only has to walk around the corner and grab one off the floor.

And then you can measure tread wear.. OH WAIT.. ummmm..
Gee.. guess what? Road surfaces really impact tire wear. I know a guy that rides ALL over the place.. and a lot. He says the roads out in the Dragon area will eat a tire up a LOT faster than most places he has been.
And how you ride has some influence as well.

Oh well.. continue on with your war. I will send you my Metzler mileage figures anyway.

I shall now cease and desist. Retreat and surrender Roll Eyes

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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #40 - 07/23/12 at 15:07:34

Don't retreat nor surrender, let's talk about the total cost of tire ownership since you guys have listed a bunch of things that commonly don't get taken into consideration.

And we'll keep talking about bias/slant, since I will be scrupulous not to have any. Wink

It is my opinion that folks have been gulled by the bike industry to expect bike tires to cost $160 installed or thereabouts, and then for you expect them to only last 3 years. That is a yearly cost of ownership of about $50-$55 a year.

You pay $9.99 at Walmart to have a car tire mounted and balanced and installed on your car. You pay $50-$70 thereabouts to have the same service done on your bike.

You have been conditioned to think of these things as "normal".

Verslagen is not going to have to include a tube cost because he has tubeless rims -- that's fine by me. He didn't have to buy one. I put my own tire on the rim, and I put my own wheel on the bike, so I didn't have to pay that $50-$70 cost. I didn't have to buy that service (nor do you, actually).

The whole point here is to get you to think about what your yearly cost for rear tires really is, and how much you pay per mile to ride on that tire. Metzlers are very very nice long lasting tires, but do they have really all that much of a different cost per mile than a Perelli? This is our chance to find out.

=========

Now, about them ugly darksider thangs ....

Car tires ARE NOT RECOMMENDED BY ME or anybody else to go on the back end of a motorcycle. I have some serious "make you bleed" issues with darksider bead seating air pressures that historically have hit 90 psi just to get a car tire bead to pop on to the bike rim (all that extra tubeless rubber gets in the way). Darksiders ARE dangerous to put on the rim, no doubt about it.

But if you care to think about it, darksiders have strong natural cost advantages. Purchase cost is half or less, they are reported to last 5-10 times longer than a bike tire and they grip and ride acceptably to those that have installed them. Both of mine have, anyway.

I can't verify the long lasting part as I only had 4x longer on my first one before the rust spot on the rim ate through the rim strip and the tube and killed it. But it died with half its thread depth still on it ....

If you think it isn't fair to have a darksider compared with a bike tire, we can make up two different classes on the spreadsheet to keep them separated. Math will be the same though.

So, what other thoughts do you have?

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Badass94Cad

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #41 - 07/23/12 at 15:55:15

OK, here's my breakdown:

1995 Suzuki Savage
Mileage: 6835.8
Tire: Metzeler ME880 Marathon 140/80HB15 BW
Cost: $153.00 (My local shop matched, actually beat MotorcycleSuperstore.com by $0.99, and no shipping)
Tube: $17.95
Installation: $75.00

Total for rear: $245.95

I also installed a front tire (if anybody cares).

Avon Cobra AV71 100/90-19 WWW
Cost: $142.99 (matched with MotorcycleSuperstore.com)
Tube: $20.95
Installation: $75.00
Subtotal front: $238.94

Total F/R: $484.89 (tax not included)

I haven't had a chance to measure the tread depth. Doing a lot of running around right now. I'll try to get them ASAP. I have approx. 175 miles on the tires so far.

Cool

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wernermeister YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 7 Spotsylvania Virgina Gender:	Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Reply #42 - 07/23/12 at 16:29:19 Badass94Cad wrote on 07/23/12 at 15:55:15: OK, here's my breakdown: Total F/R: $484.89 (tax not included) WOW, that is some serious doe for just getting new tires put on, even if they are the Best! :'(
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Badass94Cad

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #43 - 07/23/12 at 16:31:02

wernermeister wrote on 07/23/12 at 16:29:19:

Badass94Cad wrote on 07/23/12 at 15:55:15:

OK, here's my breakdown:
Total F/R: $484.89 (tax not included)
Cool

WOW, that is some serious doe for just getting new tires put on, even if they are the Best! :'(

I know! :'(

I was going to comment about that but hesitated. I was going to say that's a lot of coin, considering I got the bike for only $500. Grin

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Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War
Reply #44 - 07/23/12 at 18:31:35

Metzler claims the tread depth is 8mm (.315") but somebody needs to check theirs dead center on a mounted tire taken at the valve stem area so we have a reality checked number that will be consistent.

How does Meztler do their legally required wear bars? The thread never actually crosses the center line of the silly tire .... We are going to just have to pick one of the grooves and measure it at full depth as close to the center line of the tire as you can get.

Verslagen, you want to play now that we all know the ugly secret behind the emperor's new tire?

It costs TWICE to THREE TIMES as much as other bike tires ..... ouch !!

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