SuzukiSavage.com - Who's that knocking?

Dave

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #30 - 07/25/12 at 05:09:51

Cavi Mike wrote on 07/24/12 at 20:03:40:

You have to turn your macro on if you want to do close-up pictures. There should be a button with a flower on it.

I did turn on the macro and turned the flash off - the problem is that the autofocus doesn't work well as there are just too many irregular surfaces for it to focus on.

The good news is that the inner and outer bearings races are tight on the shaft and in the case and they had to be pulled out - so the only play could have been the bearing itself.

I placed a $ 411 order with Ron Ayers last night.......about $ 80 of that was for a new 25 tooth Kawasaki countershaft pulley.

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #31 - 07/26/12 at 02:23:57

Spent time last night while I was asleep thinking about your ugly bearing. The black marks mean it got hot or underlubed or bound up at some point in time, now if this was before the "undersized" took place or not I cannot say. But the banging didn't help any ....

Before you put it all back together you might want to trace the oil passages back through the crank that lube that bearing. Oil goes into the crank end from out at the right hand extremity of the crank (fed by the right hand cover) and exit through drilled passages in the crank itself -- might want to assure yourself the passages are all clear and have nothing rattling around in them that could move and seal off that oil feed.

Also be mindful that the exit spray of oil is supposed to bounce off the bottom of the piston -- part of the cooling package.

Those roller bearings -- they may be available singly in small increments from Timken or the original OEM supplier. If you need to tighten it up some.

Cheesy

Mods like porting take place now while the head is off.

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Mattdw Full Member Offline Posts: 193 Frisco, TX Gender:	Re: Who's that knocking? Reply #32 - 07/26/12 at 15:12:42 The pessimist in me thinks to not ignore the possibility that the bike had the speedo replaced at some point and it may have many many more miles on it than you thought when you bought it? This is assuming the title would have to be jacked with too.
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Dave

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #33 - 07/26/12 at 15:50:54

Mattdw wrote on 07/26/12 at 15:12:42:

The pessimist in me thinks to not ignore the possibility that the bike had the speedo replaced at some point and it may have many many more miles on it than you thought when you bought it?

This is assuming the title would have to be jacked with too.

I seriously doubt it. The bike was immaculate when I picked it up. Still had little rubber nubs on the tires. The women who was the owner was dating a fellow who was a biker, and she bought the bike and was learning to ride.....and then they broke up and she stopped riding. I am sure the mileage was accurate.....but they were all Long Island and New York City miles and probably involved lots of traffic.

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Mattdw

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #34 - 07/26/12 at 15:54:23

Dave wrote on 07/26/12 at 15:50:54:

Mattdw wrote on 07/26/12 at 15:12:42:

The pessimist in me thinks to not ignore the possibility that the bike had the speedo replaced at some point and it may have many many more miles on it than you thought when you bought it?

This is assuming the title would have to be jacked with too.

I seriously doubt it. The bike was immaculate when I picked it up. Still had little rubber nubs on the tires. The women who was the owner was dating a fellow who was a biker, and she bought the bike and was learning to ride.....and then they broke up and she stopped riding. I am sure the mileage was accurate.....but they were all Long Island and New York City miles and probably involved lots of traffic.

That sounds like you couldn't go wrong then. I "stole" a 2007 with less than 1000 miles on it one year ago this month for less than $2k. The carb was all gummed up but after a good cleaning she ran like a champ. Sorry you're having issues with your ride.

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Dave

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #35 - 08/06/12 at 05:49:55

Things are coming along slowly - but there has been progress.

My parts order came in last week, and I was able to spend some time this weekend and I got the bottom end back together. The left crank bearing was definitely loose, and the flywheel nut was only finger tight when I took the engine apart.....and I am sure the loose bearing and loose flywheel was the source of the knocking. The crank with the new bearing does not have any play - and I cannot move it around and get a clunking noise like I could when I took it apart. It won't be too much longer......and it will be back together.

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MeLikeBike

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #36 - 08/08/12 at 10:10:12

I don't suppose you have video or audio of how it sounded before? I'm still searching for answers on my clacking sound, which is only a little to moderately annoying. But your description sounds close to my problem. I also have still-okay camchain-tensioner clearance and recently checked valve clearances. So I'm waiting with baited breath to see if you solve your problem.

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Dave

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #37 - 08/08/12 at 11:31:36

MeLikeBike wrote on 08/08/12 at 10:10:12:

I don't suppose you have video or audio of how it sounded before? I'm still searching for answers on my clacking sound, which is only a little to moderately annoying. But your description sounds close to my problem. I also have still-okay camchain-tensioner clearance and recently checked valve clearances. So I'm waiting with baited breath to see if you solve your problem.

There is no doubt in my mind that my engine will be better when it is finally back together. I don't believe the bearing was the loudest of my problems.....even though the bearing was loose and needed to be replaced. I think the majority of the loud clack was the loose flywheel. The bearing going bad could have caused the flywheel nut to come loose - or maybe the loose flywheel caused the bearing to go bad.....either way the bearing needed to be replaced and the flywheel had to be tightened.

If you have checked the cam chain and valve clearances - the next thing I would do is check the flywheel nut based on my problem. Unfortunately you need the $ 80 puller to get the alternator rotor off before you can check the flywheel nut.....then you need a 47mm or 1-13/16" deep socket and a holder for the flywheel and a torque wrench to get things tightened up. I bought the puller and made the holder fir the flywheel - and I would be willing to rent it out for a small fee and a deposit until it is returned.

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #38 - 08/08/12 at 19:37:24

If I had another bike, I'd probably be in the garage trying this out....but I wonder if this is also my problem, how big a deal is it? (Am I causing significant damage, or running any risks of, say, destroying the bearings assemblies and having the balls run wild in the crankcase?)

In either case, I might take you up on that offer on the puller, if i can't source a local lender. It's nice that this is one of the things you can check without removing the engine, which I don't have the clean garage space or discipline to do.

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18095 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Who's that knocking? Reply #39 - 08/17/12 at 05:24:09 I was able to get the engine completely back together last night. Today I should be able to get it back in the frame and ready to go. I am looking forward to riding again, it has been 6 weeks since I brough the bike home from the Tail of the Dragon trip.....which is the last time that I rode it.
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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #40 - 08/17/12 at 20:42:32

Two philosophies on run in -- baby it is one philosophy and run it relatively fast, up and down the whole rpm band, never staying at the same rpm for long is the other philosophy.

Most race teams use the "run it fast" break in and swear by it for superior and quick ring seating and much much better piston cleanliness.

Of course, what choice do they have anyway -- it's a race engine.

Think of what that woman did to it the first time as a low rpm "baby it" run in -- she had tons of gunk on top of the piston and the rings NEVER fully seated, not even after a Dragon correction.

You may want to be a bit more aggressive when you break this engine in (at least it won't have the same illnesses as it did the last time).

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« Last Edit: 08/17/12 at 22:58:02 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #41 - 08/17/12 at 22:29:23

IDK if its true, but makes sense to me, to take an engine up the RPM band & SLAM the throttle shut, vacuum sucks the rings hard on the cylinder, I did that a few times on mine, its been a real good runnin engine.
When it was real new, under 500 miles, if I took off at too low RPM, it would knock, now, I can ride away from a stop & it wont, they really are tite from the factory,

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ralfyguy Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 932	Re: Who's that knocking? Reply #42 - 08/18/12 at 09:59:24 Sounds to me like you should just run it normally for the most part, just not redline it and not lug it.
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Dave

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #43 - 08/18/12 at 10:47:23

IT'S ALIVE..........IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!! Grin

(Intentional shouting).

I just went for a 20 mile ride and it purrs like a kitten. No more banging and clanging......just good old "Thumpin". No leaks, no drips, and possibly no errors.....except the clutch. When I was ordering parts I ordered new EBC clutch springs that are supposed to be 10% stiffer than stock - but they are weaker and the clutch slips. No biggy, I will just put the stock ones back in.

It is nice to be back amungst the "riding".

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Re: Who's that knocking?
Reply #44 - 08/18/12 at 11:06:20

Dave, take a deep breath and don't touch the clutch or anything else right now.

It is very common for clutches to act strange after a major tear down. Some of this is the solvents we use to clean gasket surfaces get on the stack and can pool around down inside the engine somewhere, some of it is the oil type change that we always do at break in (and the break in compounds themselves that are involved in a major tear down)

Run it for at least a week before deciding to do anything. Mine slipped for nearly a full week before settling in after my last tear down. Hasn't slipped since.

I saw a bottle of Lucas break in compound on your shop bench. Lucas does not recommend its break in compound for wet clutch motorcycles and we have a long list history with Lucas car products having bad effects on our clutch.

Hopefully, your first oil change to a straight (or slightly bumped) Rotella after run in will rectify most of this sort of issues.

Plus, didn't you buy some single weight racing oil to do your break in with? Completely different sort of oil there ............

Be patient, wait until you are on your first sump of normal oil before fiddlin' with the clutch insides any (other than adjusting it, of course).

Every time you change the oil type you wind up having to adjust the clutch -- oil "stiction" plays a big part in how that clutch works after all.

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