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Vacuum leak? Or Not. (Read 191 times)
rfw2003
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #15 - 07/09/12 at 16:35:57
 
Serowbot wrote on 07/09/12 at 13:16:34:
It's possible that you have a slow leak in your float seat...

Next time it sits a few days (with the petcock off)... try opening the float bowl drain screw, and see if there's any gas there...
If it's empty... you need to clean or replace the float needle...

Wink...

(...If there is gas in there... I'd check for a weak battery)...

Correct me if I'm wrong here,  but even if it was leaking by the float needle or seat, this would only really happen with the petcock open, because the pressure of the fuel from the tank would make it leak.  With the petcock off there would be no way for it to leak past since the fuel level in the bowl is lower then the float needle/seat there by leaving fuel in the bowl unless the bike was laying down or upside down.

R.F.
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1996 Savage, Corbin Seat, K&N filter, Slip Streamer Enterprise II windshield, LED bullet signals, Cat's eye LED tail light Ryca reverse cone long muffler
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #16 - 07/09/12 at 16:52:15
 
rfw2003 wrote on 07/09/12 at 16:35:57:
Correct me if I'm wrong here,  but even if it was leaking by the float needle or seat, this would only really happen with the petcock open, because the pressure of the fuel from the tank would make it leak.  With the petcock off there would be no way for it to leak past since the fuel level in the bowl is lower then the float needle/seat there by leaving fuel in the bowl unless the bike was laying down or upside down.

R.F.

My bad... yer' right...  The amount in the fuel line might dribble down...  but, you're right,.. the float bowl would still be full...
Brain fart...  Huh...



PS... Hope Bamm reads this...
Everybody has a blonde moment once in while... Grin...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.
Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #17 - 07/10/12 at 06:25:37
 
Hey, Row,, Looksa like you mita stepped in sumpin there, ehh?


An I dont never watcha them Godfather movies,, too mean,
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Savage 1987
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #18 - 07/10/12 at 09:03:18
 
Looks like I am on to something here.  

I think a few posts back Serow mentioned weak battery.  I think this theory has legs.  I have been using a Ballistic Evo2 4 cell lithium battery.  My original tests months ago showed that the battery was able to supply the necessary voltage to create a spark.  However, over the past few weeks the battery has exhibited strange behavior - not being able to hold a charge, probably also spitting out wacky voltages (peaks and valleys) which could explain troubles starting .  I contacted Ballistic, (who has awesome customer service!) and now I am set up with the 8 cell battery.  I had to sacrifice a few ounces of weight but I think it's worth it!  (Just kidding on the weight comment, I am really not that obsessed  Wink)  the 8 cell gives me double the amount of CCA.  

I have done some starting tests when the bike is cold, when the petcock had been OFF for a few hours, and when the petcock has been left ON while parked.  All of the starts with the fresh new battery seem to return a very effortless start.

So far this evidence makes me think Serow was correct on his battery statement.  I am going to continue to monitor the situation throughout the week and will report back any new developments.

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High_Plains_Thumpr
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #19 - 07/10/12 at 11:44:39
 
Savage 1987 wrote on 07/10/12 at 09:03:18:
Looks like I am on to something here.  

I think a few posts back Serow mentioned weak battery.  I think this theory has legs.  I have been using a Ballistic Evo2 4 cell lithium battery. SNIP So far this evidence makes me think Serow was correct on his battery statement.  I am going to continue to monitor the situation throughout the week and will report back any new developments.

Savage, I'm a little leary of lithium technology for a charging system that is not set up for them. (Chargers for R/C model airplanes & cars, cell phones carefully monitor charging by microprocessor, so they don't overcharge. Lithiums have been known to catch fire if overcharged.)  Shocked

I don't know if your battery is designed for motorcycle use. Motorcycle battery manufacturers have incorporated technology that takes into account motorcycle primitive charging circuits (my 1971 Honda CB100 doesn't even have a regulator!  Exclaim), and environmental factors with the bike (vibration, heat, etc.).  Cheesy

I got a generic AGM sealed lead acid battery for the Savage:

http://www.batterymart.com/p-Big-Crank-ETX15L-Battery.html



It fits, but my 1987 battery box has a bottom chamfer, the battery doesn't so it was a snug fit. Next time will trim the bottom pad so it slides out easier. Your later model may be different. So far, it has retained its charge over several weeks non-use, and have used it on several 450 mile trips, and one 650 mile one, short trips included. YMMV  Smiley
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #20 - 07/10/12 at 11:58:45
 
Cr@p!... I just bought a lithium power screwdriver... 'cause I thought it was better...
Huh...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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High_Plains_Thumpr
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #21 - 07/10/12 at 12:12:35
 
rfw2003 wrote on 07/09/12 at 16:35:57:
Correct me if I'm wrong here,  but even if it was leaking by the float needle or seat, this would only really happen with the petcock open, because the pressure of the fuel from the tank would make it leak.  With the petcock off there would be no way for it to leak past since the fuel level in the bowl is lower then the float needle/seat there by leaving fuel in the bowl unless the bike was laying down or upside down.

You are correct. With the Raptor petcock in "OFF" position or OEM petcock de-energized (engine off - no vacuum), the float bowl would normally not drain.

With high temperatures, fuel could evaporate quicker. (California model has a charcoal canister, don't know if this would help reduce evaporation.)

Where the concern comes in, is when the engine is not running, with a manual petcock in the open position or failed OEM petcock, fuel flow from the tank is by gravity. If the flow bowl needle valve is leaking or float is set too high, unable to shut the flow completely, will cause the bowl to overfill, flow past carburetor throat to the combustion chamber.

In an automobile with carburetor, fuel is supplied by a low pressure fuel pump (mechanical or electric, less than 15 psig, usually around 7.5 psig). Due to the fuel tank being lower than the carburetor, there is no flow when the engine is off. Needle valve leakage is less evident and less likely to harm the engine.

Using the OFF position on a manual petcock is therefore a necessity to prevent potential disasters.
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High_Plains_Thumpr
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #22 - 07/11/12 at 08:51:32
 
Serowbot wrote on 07/10/12 at 11:58:45:
Cr@p!... I just bought a lithium power screwdriver... 'cause I thought it was better...
Huh...

There's nothing wrong with a lithium powered screwdriver. Lithium has the advantage of great capacity for the weight. The charger must be specifically made for charging that specific lithium battery pack.

FYI, in the case of R/C airplanes and cars, one also usually uses a fire safe bag or ceramic bucket with lid during charging. Because these batteries face abuse in crashes, this is to ensure if a fire occurs, it is contained. People have burnt down garages for failing to use some form of containment.

Though not as common, people have experienced cell phone and laptop fires.

Video of a lithium battery fire:

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Savage 1987
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #23 - 07/11/12 at 09:04:55
 
I would not like it if a battery spewed fire just beneath my crotchal region.  

High_Plains, here is the brief overview of the Ballistic Lithium battery in case you are interested.
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/batteries.php
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rfw2003
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Re: Vacuum leak? Or Not.
Reply #24 - 07/11/12 at 09:35:52
 
Personally until they get a lithium type battery chemistry that is designed for use as in motorcycle/automotive environments I will never put one on. Our charging systems are not designed for them, plus lithium batteries are not designed to work in all 4 seasons of the year.  Though you might be able to get away with it in some areas of FL and CA.  I'm not one to stop riding just because it's cold outside and need a battery that will be able to work in sub 50F temps. Yes there are some that will work down to the mid 30's but even still that is not going to cut it in the winter months, especially when you factor in the charging issues with the on-board regulator/rectifier.

R.F.
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1996 Savage, Corbin Seat, K&N filter, Slip Streamer Enterprise II windshield, LED bullet signals, Cat's eye LED tail light Ryca reverse cone long muffler
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