SuzukiSavage.com - bolt extraction,

serenity3743

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #15 - 07/05/12 at 11:21:49

Serowbot wrote on 07/04/12 at 22:45:12:

Not sayin' it would work,... but, I'd dremel or hacksaw a slot, across the bolt and the pedestal... then, use an impact wrench with a common bit to try to remove... if that failed... grind away enough of the pedestal to get a bite on the bolt with vise grips and pull the bolt... Then add a washer or two to install the new bolt...
... but.. I can't use a welder for sheeitt... so my ideas are limited.... Grin

...

This is always my FIRST step whenever I have a twisted-off bolt-head. I hate screw extractors 'cause the bastards always break and don't move the bolt at all; probably because it is next to impossible to get them perfectly centered. But I have used the method proposed by Serowbot many times, always with success.

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Cavi Mike

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #16 - 07/05/12 at 11:23:11

engineer wrote on 07/05/12 at 09:17:41:

Many years ago some old millwrights showed me a trick to remove broken bolts, taps etc. which still works quite well. You get a small cold chisel and either use the corner or grind it fit the situation. You then find an irregularity in the broken bolt or whatever near the outside edge where the point of the chisel will dig in. You then gently and carefully start tapping the chisel with a small ball peen hammer in a counter-clockwise direction and if you are lucky and skilled you can rotate the thing out of there , one little tap at a time, far enough to get a grip on it and remove it the rest of the way.

That only works if the bolt is free to spin - typically when the bolt breaks when tightening the bolt not loosening it. A chisel or punch in this scenario will only cause damage and net you a much worse situation.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #17 - 07/05/12 at 11:30:19

& eze outs drive into a hollowed out bolt & spread it into the threads,, really not the best thing to do,

Left hand drill bits & then, if you take a pin punch & cut the tip down to make a scoop, you can cut the dutchman out, Ive built them to work on pipe, big enough to get in & work. Where that is? I dont see it working, but for another location, its something to keep in the back of your mind,

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splash07

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #18 - 07/05/12 at 12:11:01

well I dont consider myself an experienced wrencher, I have only been wrenching for about 14 years and still feel like a newb. I have broken my fare share of bolts and extracted many of them successfully. Done about 4 in the head of this same motor in fact. But this one particular bolt was not giving any feedback. I didnt notice irregular tightening when I put it in and it seemed to be coming out OK until......snap! I actually was able to get it to turn about 1.5 times before she sheered off, maybe that was the bolt twisting in place though.

I agree mike, I dont think the chisel method will work here. If I could not get this thing to budge with the vise grips first (at first the bolt had about a cm sticking out of the case, until I put vise grips to that and sheered it off the rest of the way flush), then the extractor broke. I doubt it will turn with the chisel.

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RidgeRunner13

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #19 - 07/05/12 at 13:00:25

As you can see from this picture, I have many ways of persuading mangled bolts, nuts, & screws to cooperate. For what you were doing, the set in the black box w/ yellow background would have been my first option. But you lost that when you drilled it. If those failed , then I would have tried my left hand drill bits. The extractors would have left you a good center to start from. Wink

If it broke because it is seized in the aluminum, the heat from welding a nut on, followed by some PB Blaster penetrating oil would probably have the best chance of getting it out. That would concentrate the heat in the steel expanding in the aluminum & breaking the corrosion, allowing the penetrant to do its' job. Cool

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splash07 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 911 Charleston, SC Gender:	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #20 - 07/05/12 at 13:20:34 I didnt try any heat but I did use a little PB blaster once the original bolt had been drilled all the way through. obviously it did not help much. I will try the slot technique then let y'all know. With pics of course!
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #21 - 07/05/12 at 13:20:47 If that blasted eze out wasnt in there, you could just drill & tap,, The only way I see to go forward w/o making a real engineering project out of it is grind that thing down & get a nut welded on it.
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splash07

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #22 - 07/05/12 at 13:24:24

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 07/05/12 at 13:20:47:

If that blasted eze out wasnt in there, you could just drill & tap,, The only way I see to go forward w/o making a real engineering project out of it is grind that thing down & get a nut welded on it.

And that may be the answer, its definitely the only thing I can think of if the extractor wont come out. I plan to slot the end with a dremel then try and unscrew the extractor in a clockwise direction. When I was trying the extractor at first it seemed to come loose easily when turned clockwise even after hammering it in snuggly. If I can get it out then I can finish drilling and tapping.

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #23 - 07/05/12 at 13:36:53

Certainly that would be The best answer at this point,That would be worth investing quite a bit of time in.,Theres a few things you mite try if it doesnt want to play ball,
Theres a little propane powered soldering torch for about $10.00 at Lowes. You mite take the soldering tip off & just expose the flame & heat that eze out up some, then squirt water ( some spray bottles adjust to make a squirtgun type stream) on the eze out. That mite make it want to come out, squirts some penetrating oil in there & tap on the lug. The vibration may tend to walk the eze out, out, Thers a few ways to go at it, I hope thats a tapered eze out, If it is, I expect youll win.,

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splash07 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 911 Charleston, SC Gender:	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #24 - 07/05/12 at 13:54:50 its tapered and I hope I win, I like to win.
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Trippah Serious Thumper Offline I ride, therefore I am. Posts: 2517 central Mass Gender:	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #25 - 07/05/12 at 14:22:01 Two years back when I broke off the header bolt etc, I found a shop that does EDM work. I lucked out as they charged me next to nothing and used it for training experience for youg lad learining the business. The previous quotes were for a couple hundred + dollars. Best of luck.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #26 - 07/05/12 at 15:49:17 You know,, a 1/16the bit run between the OOOze out & the dutchman in a few places just mite make it let go if you cant make it turn loose any other way.,Mite wanna get a few of them,, there pretty wimpy & sharpening such a small bit is about impossible, .
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Cavi Mike Serious Thumper Offline Thumper n00b Posts: 1005 Rochester, NY Gender:	Re: bolt extraction, Reply #27 - 07/05/12 at 19:28:00 What is this "dutchman " thing you keep referring to? Is that a brand-name that you're using as a generic term?
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #28 - 07/05/12 at 19:35:45

A dutchman is any broken off threaded part that is being boneheaded about moving, Seems to be a term used in lots of places

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Done that and repaired it just fine.
Your saving grace is the fact that the broken piece, "dutchman", did not bottom out in the hole, the thread therefore is not loaded on the flanks.

Make a little BRASS dowell that will fall into the hole above the dutchman. The center of the brass piece has to have a hole about 1/8 inch or say 2mm drilled through it.
The idea is to use the brass piece as a guide for a drill (1/8 or 2mm) bit to not damage the threads in the hole.
Drill a hole in the dutchman about 1/4in deep. Then use a Tool Steel Extractor and wind it out. Piece of cake and a rag with a good helping of grease to catch the drillings save you from having to wash the head out.

I have done this, ONCE, now I just hate those bolts. Been looking for a Stud Kit for that very reason.
The fix is easy, the cure is the stud kit. Interested peoples, we need to find this and make it available.
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rokrover

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Re: bolt extraction,
Reply #29 - 07/07/12 at 14:55:20

+1 on Trippah's EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining) suggestion. Back in the day we called it Spark Erosion and it was the only way I got a sheared manifold bolt out of an aluminum head. Might be hard to find a shop doing it these days in our hollowed-out economy!

I can't remember if those cover bolts are stainless but I learned early on stainless causes electrolytic aluminum corrosion. Not what you'd intuitively expect. As a preventive measure I now always smear a bead of of anti-seize moly grease on any thread going into aluminum.

Good luck!

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