SuzukiSavage.com - YAOQ (yet another oil question)

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YAOQ (yet another oil question)
06/11/12 at 17:37:35

I have two owners manuals, a 2002, and 2009, plus a service manual that covers 1987 .. 2009. In the 2002 OM it specifies that an oil change with filter requires 2.5 quarts, while for 2009 only 2.1 quarts is required. Out of curiosity I checked the service manual and it seems that bikes 1987 thru 2003 specify 2.5 quarts, and 2004 onward specify only 2.1 quarts.

I just did my 7500 mile service on my 2009 and found that exactly 2 quarts put the level right between the marks. That was with a new filter replacement and running up for several minutes to allow the oil to circulate, then checking the window with the bike level.

Is this typical, and did the older bikes actually have more capacity, or did they just drain better? I ask because the specification for a REBUILD is the full 2.5 quarts on ALL years. I'm almost led to believe that the newer bikes are trapping oil somewhere... perhaps in the head, or???

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #1 - 06/11/12 at 18:27:53 When I drain my oil I always lean the bike over both ways to get all the oil out,Also start it and let it run a couple second to get all the oil from any place it may be hanging.2 quarts and about a cup and 1/2 bring it to the top line with a new filter.2006 bike.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #2 - 06/11/12 at 21:02:09 I just cant make myself start an engine w/o oil in it, even tho we recently saw one go about 12 miles, empty.
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rfw2003 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1108 Yantis, TX	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #3 - 06/11/12 at 21:46:40 justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/12 at 21:02:09: I just cant make myself start an engine w/o oil in it, even tho we recently saw one go about 12 miles, empty. I'm with JOG on this. I couldn't make myself start any engine without oil in it. It goes against my nature.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #4 - 06/11/12 at 22:49:50 Can't see that a cup of dirty is worth the risk. 1st you run it dry, then start it dry... not me.
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mpescatori

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Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question)
Reply #5 - 06/12/12 at 00:38:18

rfw2003 wrote on 06/11/12 at 21:46:40:

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/11/12 at 21:02:09:

I just cant make myself start an engine w/o oil in it, even tho we recently saw one go about 12 miles, empty.

I'm with JOG on this. I couldn't make myself start any engine without oil in it. It goes against my nature.

The ONE time I tried a certain trick, it was on my old trusty Moto Guzzi.

She had been sitting for a full three years, no battery, full tank of gas and with a spoonful++ of motor oil in the chambers through the plug holes.

I drained the old fuel and gave the 15-16 liters to my brother

I drained the old oil on a cold engine (wouldn't start her with 3 year old oil) and, with both spark plugs removed, gradually engaged 5th gear and pushed and shoved the bike up and down the alleyway until I had clocked a few hundred meters (say, 1/4 mile)

The bike sounded like a steam train, chugging air in and out of the plug holes ! Grin

I then drained her some more, put new oil and filter,and resumed the "chugga-chug" drill for another 1/4 mile.

New plugs, new fuel, new battery and she started... 3rd time !

Why am I saying this ? Because I do NOT advocate running a bike (or any engine) with no oil, but turing the engine by hand (as done by vintage mechanics) or pushing the vehicle back and forth at a few dozen rpm cannot hort the engine at all...

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #6 - 06/12/12 at 04:34:32 Years ago a BMW dealer told me the way he did all new BMWs,Was to start them and hold them at 4000 rpm that was the best way to break them in.Now these bikes were make months before and sent from Germany so the oil would have been drained pretty good. I've always did my cars and trucks the same way(not the lean part).
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Dave

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Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question)
Reply #7 - 06/12/12 at 09:33:49

bill67 wrote on 06/11/12 at 18:27:53:

When I drain my oil I always lean the bike over both ways to get all the oil out,Also start it and let it run a couple second to get all the oil from any place it may be hanging.2 quarts and about a cup and 1/2 bring it to the top line with a new filter.2006 bike.

There is absolutely no way I would consider running an engine without oil in it....even for a few seconds. Running the engine with no oil will put far more wear on the engine than the small amount of dirty oil mixed with the new oil will. I don't see any reason to do this.....just knowing that the engine is not getting pressurized oil while the new oil filter is getting the air purged out bothers me....but that can't be helped.

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Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question)
Reply #8 - 06/12/12 at 10:02:32

90% of engine wear happens in the first 30 seconds of engine start...
That's why used vehicles with highway miles are good to buy... fewer starts and stops...
Never buy a pizza delivery vehicle...

I'd never run an engine for second without oil...
After a similar discussion about a year ago,.. I've even decided to limit my use of the leaning technique.... I just do a little rock, side to side and that's enough...

That BMW dealer was insane... I can't think of a worse way to break in an engine...
Grin

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Arnold Serious Thumper Offline The dude abides... Posts: 896 Westchester, NY Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #9 - 06/12/12 at 11:27:59 When you buy a vehicle, how do you know if the miles came from highway or pizza delivery though?
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #10 - 06/12/12 at 11:36:16 You don't know and you don't know if they've been using diesel oil in a gasoline engine either.
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18098 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #11 - 06/12/12 at 11:40:29 Arnold wrote on 06/12/12 at 11:27:59: When you buy a vehicle, how do you know if the miles came from highway or pizza delivery though? Does the inside of the car smell like stale Pizza?
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #12 - 06/12/12 at 11:42:00 leaning the bike only drains the cam bath and may get the oil caught in the gaskets for the side covers. and does not drain the passage ways, so oil start immediately.
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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question) Reply #13 - 06/12/12 at 11:42:25 I've read were it take 10 seconds for the oil to fully circulate in a car engine from start up so I would think a motorcycle would be the same.You know when i run the motor for a few second there is hardly any pressure on the motor,Its not like your are driving it.
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Re: YAOQ (yet another oil question)
Reply #14 - 06/12/12 at 13:18:55

Warm it up, shut down, drain oil. Change oil filter, don't forget to swap the o-rings (make sure you put a bit of axle grease on them to prevent slipping out of groove, trust me, we do this on Peterbilts, Caterpillars, Sterlings...). Pour in 2 quarts of your favorite non-energy conserving oil.

Forget about until the next service.

Savage power train would likely be just as happy on 20 year old gear oil. The engine is great, too bad the electrical system is crappier than a 1950s Lucas design...

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