SuzukiSavage.com - Time for a Verslagen?

teabowl13 Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 535	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #15 - 06/08/12 at 11:24:49 bill67 wrote on 06/08/12 at 08:33:33: This is wear a higher priced good motorcycle oil makes the difference Stuff just don't wear like that. No offense Bill, but are you a glutton for punishment or what?
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bess227

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #16 - 06/08/12 at 11:25:09

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 06/08/12 at 08:57:33:

17 miles, just far enough for it to get warmed up enough to fully stand the jug up & relax enough to get a new tooth on the tensioner after a few trips, If the spring was allowed to hold the tension longer & keep that ratchet out of the mix, the chain would last a lot longer.

justin,

so my commute to work is about 7 miles one way.......my bike is an 07 with 2100 on it as of right now. i have put 1200 on it since the middle of April when I got it. about 70% of the miles i have put on it, have been that 14 mile round tripper twice a day (i ride home for lunch). so seven miles, shut down......four hours later.....seven miles, shut down...etc.

should i be looking for wear sooner than the average bear??

i understand the mod and would probably go with the Verslavy, you guys sing the praises of it and i trust you.

just wondering.

thanks for the input.

Scott

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #17 - 06/08/12 at 11:43:17

I would. Tho Id expect such a short trip to not fully warm the engine up & youll likely not see the same wear as the guy who rides 17 miles,.But, as much hassle as it is to go in & look so you can get a grasp of what rate the tensioner is coming out at, Id say do it,( pretty much hafta do it more than once, go in, measure, keep up with time/miles & do it again, measure, compare) because allowing it to come out is usually an engine fatality.,
The Hot Cold cycles of short trips allow the ratchet to grab a new spot on the tensioner. If a guy rode every day as far as he could, then there would be many more miles between heating & cooling cycles, & the ratchet wouldnt get a chance to grab a new tooth, holding the chain tight as the cylinder warms up & "Grows" taller, stretching the chain. Actually, it just causes wear at the pins..

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bess227 Full Member Offline Back in the saddle after 20 yrs Posts: 100 N. Wilkesboro, NC Gender:	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #18 - 06/08/12 at 11:49:36 ok thanks. and to review, the sound/sounds that are an indicator of wear sound like??????? is it more of a whir? a buzz? with a chain in motion i am thinking similar to a chainsaw chain when it gets loose, only in an enclosed space surrounded by metal. am i close?
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verslagen1

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #19 - 06/08/12 at 11:53:04

bess227 wrote on 06/08/12 at 11:25:09:

so my commute to work is about 7 miles one way.......my bike is an 07 with 2100 on it as of right now. i have put 1200 on it since the middle of April when I got it. about 70% of the miles i have put on it, have been that 14 mile round tripper twice a day (i ride home for lunch). so seven miles, shut down......four hours later.....seven miles, shut down...etc.

should i be looking for wear sooner than the average bear??

We have been discussing the actutual mechanism for chain stretch issue for some time. We have the feeling that it's thermal cycles not actual miles that causes the stretch. Our cam chain mileage champs all average longer trips than normal, or even typical for a newb.

The cam chain tensioner has a spring for the basic adjustment and a pawl to keep the chain from being overpowered by centrifical forces during high speed runs. The problem is that it keeps it too tight.

I think once I ran the starter with the clutch cover off, and before oil began shooting out at me I noticed how much the tensioner guide moves during the cycle. Those little knotches are really too tight to follow such motion and not over tension the chain. Combine the amount of slack created by the difference of thermal growth between steel and aluminum and you have a real problem.

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verslagen1

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #20 - 06/08/12 at 11:59:29

bess227 wrote on 06/08/12 at 11:49:36:

ok thanks.

and to review, the sound/sounds that are an indicator of wear sound like???????

is it more of a whir? a buzz? with a chain in motion i am thinking similar to a chainsaw chain when it gets loose, only in an enclosed space surrounded by metal.

am i close?

Most times you'll hear/feel a rapping on the clutch cover to the rear and above the oil filter. That's when you've gone too far of course. This rapping is caused by the plunger wiggling up and down or left and right ovalling out the housing for the plunger. Keep going this way and the plunger slips out of the housing getting caught up in the gears and making a real racket. Next thing to happen is an even louder clatter and sudden silence.

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bess227

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #21 - 06/08/12 at 12:05:24

verslagen1 wrote on 06/08/12 at 11:59:29:

bess227 wrote on 06/08/12 at 11:49:36:

ok thanks.

and to review, the sound/sounds that are an indicator of wear sound like???????

is it more of a whir? a buzz? with a chain in motion i am thinking similar to a chainsaw chain when it gets loose, only in an enclosed space surrounded by metal.

am i close?

Most times you'll hear/feel a rapping on the clutch cover to the rear and above the oil filter. That's when you've gone too far of course. This rapping is caused by the plunger wiggling up and down or left and right ovalling out the housing for the plunger. Keep going this way and the plunger slips out of the housing getting caught up in the gears and making a real racket. Next thing to happen is an even louder clatter and sudden silence.

Vers......

that sudden silence is definitely what i am trying to stay away from. Wink

so in another couple thousand i guess i will be contacting you for the hookup........just as well do it and be done with it.

without this site and you fine folks i would have never known about 75% of this stuff. would have been at my local dealer's mercy.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #22 - 06/08/12 at 12:08:23 Much better to never hear that warning sound, I went in at 15,000 miles & it was just Aaaalmost time, so I went ahead & did it. That was just a short time before Verslagen came up with his answer, or that chain would still be in there,,I still have the chain & it sits soaking in oil & will go with the bike when it gets sold,.
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lch2 Junior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 63	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #23 - 06/08/12 at 12:45:24 This thread just got me thinking on some time I need to spent on my bike! it's an 86 ls650, with something like 36k on it, engine supposed to be rebuild recently, but I was not the owner on the given time, so I better check myself!
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Savage_Rob

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #24 - 06/08/12 at 14:09:24

For me, it was time as soon as I could get one and put it on. It's not just an improvement on the original design. It's peace of mind. When it does reach full extension, it'll be noisy as hell but it won't fall out and self-destruct. I really dig that.

I like the idea of reducing the ratcheting; it really is part of the cause of premature demise. The vibration of the bike causes it to catch one more tooth on the thing and then it's locked with greater tension and wear on the chain... until it wears enough for a slight slack when it ratchets out again. Lather/rinse/repeat... All that said, slowing the ratcheting sounds like a laudable goal. However, I don't see myself accomplishing it with a Dremel and a flat-bastard file, so I'll wait and see what the home-grown machine shop mages can come up with.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #25 - 06/08/12 at 14:45:32 I think a Dremel would do it, but Id buy a tensioner arm to play with instead of downing the bike, I think all that needs done is smooth every other tooth, or maybe 2 in a row, but Id start with every other one,
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Dave

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Re: Time for a Verslagen?
Reply #26 - 06/09/12 at 04:14:26

I read this thread just before going to bed........that is always a recipe for keeping my mind going at night. Roll Eyes

I am not sure if this is best described...or if a picture would do better. I imagined that the end of the chain tensioner could be cut off of the plunger with the ratchet. A new end could be built that has a cushion of some elastic material or very short spring - this would give some compression for those instances when the chain gets excessively tight. The spring(cushion) would have to be a little stronger than the plunger spring so that the normal ratcheting could still continue when required. The ratcheting would still occur when the chain is loose - but the cushion would relieve some tension when the chain gets overly tight.

-----or-----

There was a fellow that posted in the Cam Chain thead in the Tech section, and he put a long curved radius in one of the guides to take up some slack. It could be that this curve would relieve tension when the chain tightens up - and then flex back to curved as the engine cools and the tension is relieved.

Food for thought!

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Time for a Verslagen? Reply #27 - 06/09/12 at 08:41:54 The cushion idea would work. IDK how much finagling it wuld take to build it, tho. Not a lot of room to play with. I think smoothing teeth would be easier. The curve in the guide is a good idea, too,, I tried it,,IDK if it worked, cuz I havent put miles on it since.,
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