SuzukiSavage.com - trouble putting in new brake fluid

splash07

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trouble putting in new brake fluid
06/03/12 at 16:31:15

I have searched and found where others have had this problem but I cannot saeem to fix it. I have no pressure when I pull in the brake lever. I have recently changed to the SS brake line and so I am starting with a dry system and new fluid. Put fluid in reservoir and did the ole pump sqeuze open close bit for a while before I decided nothing at all was actually happening. Searched some more and decided I needed to bleed the master cylinder. So I pulled lever in lossened the banjo on the master cyl then tightened it then pump and repeat, did not seem to be anything happening. removed the hose altogether and pumped the lever and only a small trickle of fluid comes form the master cyl. I still have no resistence, help?

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #1 - 06/03/12 at 16:50:32 gravity bleed, fill master, open bleeder go get a beer. refill master when necessary. refill beer when necessary. you may even need to remove the bleeder to get it to go.
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SimonTuffGuy

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #2 - 06/03/12 at 16:50:52

You need to loosen the bleeder screw on caliper itself... If you've never done it before, find someone to help you... These are your BRAKES and you need them to work correctly.

The process is... Attach a hose (I used aquarium hose from the local pet shop) to the nipple of the bleeder on the caliper. Loosen the bleeder screw, with the reservoir filled (I always put the cap/lid back on, didn't screw it, but laid on top - I also propped the bike up so that master cylinder was level), pump the brake lever 4 to 5 times, hold the lever in and tighten the bleeder screw... Let out on the brake lever. Loosen the screw, pump 4 to 5 times, tighten the screw, let out on the brake lever. Repeat this until you have a full stream of brake fluid coming out of the tube with NO BUBBLES... Remember to keep the reservoir filled, as you'll be draining it when bleeding. I had to add fluid 4 or 5 times during my bleeding.

Things to keep in mind... Do not close the bleeder screw with the brake lever OUT... And do not open it with the brake lever pulled in.

Again... If you don't know what you're doing... Get someone that does to help you. These are things that you don't want to fail when you need them.

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« Last Edit: 06/04/12 at 18:24:19 by SimonTuffGuy »

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splash07 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 911 Charleston, SC Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #3 - 06/03/12 at 17:22:53 the hose is completly removed and no fluid will come out of the master cyl.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #4 - 06/03/12 at 17:34:28 last time I replaced a hose I used a vacuum bleeder. didn't even have time to get a beer. :'(
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splash07

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #5 - 06/03/12 at 20:04:21

OK, took hose of master cyl, emptied all the fluid out of the master cyl, blew a little compressed air in the outlet to clean things out a little. Put the whole system back together and filled the reservoir with fluid, zip tied the brake lever back, opened the bleeder and put the bleeder in a jar of brake fluid. Wait 30 minutes drink several beers, return to find nothing has happened. No fluid is gone from the reservoir. What the heck!

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #6 - 06/03/12 at 20:18:14 don't tie the lever down, when it's released is when it equalizes.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #7 - 06/03/12 at 20:28:37 I'm thinking the 1st time I did it, I used the palm of my hand over the top of the master cylinder to seal it off and press down to pump the fluid in, think that got it going.
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justin_o_guy2

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What happened?

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East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.

Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #8 - 06/03/12 at 23:13:28

When there is exactly zero fluid in the M/C & the hole in the bottom is blown dry, I think its hard to get the fluid to pass into that little hole. IDK why, exactly, cuz if you had a hole that size in a bottle of brake fluid, it'd be empty in a minute,,Anyway, if you have a syringe, pull the fluid level down in the M/C, then load the syringe & put it right down on the hole & try to seal it off by pushing on it & try to force some fluid into the piston, mite need to squeeze the lever a couple of times.
Look up
Prime master cylinder

Getting a vac setup for blake breeding is a good thing. save tons of hassle.

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Pine

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #9 - 06/04/12 at 07:05:05

SimonTuffGuy wrote on 06/03/12 at 16:50:52:

You need to loosen the bleeder screw on caliper itself... If you've never done it before, find someone to help you... These are your BRAKES and you need them to work correctly.

The process is... Attach a hose (I used aquarium hose from the local pet shop) to the nipple of the bleeder on the caliper. Loosen the bleeder screw, with the reservoir filled (I always put the cap/lid back on, didn't screw it, but laid on top - I also propped the bike up so that master cylinder was level), pump the clutch lever 4 to 5 times, hold the lever in and tighten the bleeder screw... Let out on the clutch cable. Loosen the screw, pump 4 to 5 times, tighten the screw, let out on the clutch. Repeat this until you have a full stream of brake fluid coming out of the tube with NO BUBBLES... Remember to keep the reservoir filled, as you'll be draining it when bleeding. I had to add fluid 4 or 5 times during my bleeding.

Things to keep in mind... Do not close the bleeder screw with the clutch lever OUT... And do not open it with the clutch lever pulled in.

Again... If you don't know what you're doing... Get someone that does to help you. These are things that you don't want to fail when you need them.

Not trying to be funny... pretty sure one needs to replace "brake" where you see "clutch" in these instructions.

I was able to drain my MC and bleed the entire system, with very little problem. Some ramblings that may be helpful:

In the process, you must:
fill the master cylinder
completely replace the cover and tighten down
open the bleeder, only a little
squessze and hold the brake lever
fully close the bleeder
release the brake lever

That is one cycle...
when the system is full of air you will only get air
as the brake fluid is forced down it will start to "spit"
as all the air is removed you will get a steady stream

This took me at least 30 minutes to do alone with no specialty items. I had to refill the MC about 5 times.

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #10 - 06/04/12 at 08:48:19

Just to make sure you understand. The entire brake system; master, line, caliper MUST be full of fluid ONLY with no air bubbles - not even little tiny air bubbles. Why? Because air compresses, causing spongy brakes. One of the problems that I think Vers was getting at, is air bubbles rise, so they tend to float AWAY from your caliper because it is BELOW (gravity wise) your master cylinder. So if there is air in the line it is trying to rise in the line, while you are trying to push it down and out the bleeder - a direction it does not naturally want to go in.

The master cylinder is really just a fancy kind of pump. When you hold the lever in, it is sealed so no fluid can transfer to or from the brake line to the master reservoir. If you think about it this makes sense. When you release the lever, the master cylinder "grabs" a new quantity of fluid to push toward the caliper the next time you squeeze. In an actual working brake system you won't be pushing much fluid at all, and the brake should feel very solid at the lever - almost like a mechanical connection.

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RidgeRunner13

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #11 - 06/04/12 at 10:04:12

I've been working on bikes since before they had disc brakes. I usually drain & refill mine at least once a year so I've had lots of practice.

I get a length of 3/16" clear tubing long enough to reach from the bleeder screw to the master cylinder. I fill the m/c, put the hose on the bleeder screw & open it about 1/2 turn & hold the free end of the tubing in the fluid in the m/c reservoir. Keeping the free end down in the fluid, I slowly pump the brake lever until I have a solid stream of fluid in the hose. I then close the bleeder screw & remove the hose from the bleeder. If you clamp the hose just above the bleeder before you take it off, you won't even make a mess. This has always worked for me & gives the firmest lever of all the methods I've used for years. Cool

It works because when you release the lever, it will draw fluid into the hose & not air, & when you squeeze the lever the air will bubble out. Grin

Just keep the free end IN THE FLUID so you don't draw air in.

Between my 2 bikes & my friends, I do this several times a year. It even works for rear disc brakes too, as I found out when I did my V-Star 950 the first time. Roll Eyes

I first came up with this idea in 1980 when I put a disc brake front end from a '72 Norton Commando on my '70. After spendng a frustrating day going through the m/c & caliper, cleaning & rebuilding both, I still couldn't get it to work. I tried this & was done in 15 minutes. You don't forget what works when you've been as frustrated as I was that day.

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splash07

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Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid
Reply #12 - 06/04/12 at 14:41:24

Finally had some time to work on it this afternoon. I tried the palm plunger method suggested by vers. That seemed to get things going. I am now going through the cycle of pump squeeze open close bleeder repeat. It seems to be going OK but really s.....l....o.....w. I have been going for like 20 mionutes and only refilled the reservoir once now. I also get no resistence when I pull on the lever. How long does it usually take to start feeling some pressure?

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RidgeRunner13 Serious Thumper Offline haulin' the groceries! Posts: 649 Mustang Island, Texas Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #13 - 06/04/12 at 14:50:54 Make sure your forks are turned so the bleeder is at the highest point & use the hose. You will be able to see the air leave the system that way. You may have to loosen the m/c & rotate it on the bars to a more level position until you have it bled.
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splash07 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 911 Charleston, SC Gender:	Re: trouble putting in new brake fluid Reply #14 - 06/04/12 at 14:53:37 I can clearly see air and brake fluid spit come out of the bleeder but the reservior seems to be draining down really slow. How long should this process take if everything is working correctly?
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