Son in law is one of those types that asks a question about something he doesn't know then tells you your wrong and/or argues about it. Always implying he's experienced as me or more so in most things in life. Im almost 52 for christ sake!
He's about 24.

Got the bug to buy him a bike and bought a GZ250 10 days ago and did the question thing.
Of course i got the argument thing.
Wanted to feel the wind in his face so only going to wear a brain bucket.
Couldn't wait to ride and from what i gathered rode all over without a license plate or license.
His bike experience was riding dirt bikes and quads off rode.
Tried to instill confidence in me telling me how good he was at jumping quads across creeks(and wrecking them) riding on two wheels(side not wheelie) etc etc.
Guess he rode it 70 some miles back and forth to work a couple of time without his license.
I had hoped the 250 would give him some good experience time to learn.

Came over last night with his 'NEW' bike. Said the 250 was going to get him killed, to under powered.
Honda Shadow 600vlx he had bought the day before. Been re-jetted, after market muffs etc. Not a stock bike. Already wanting to make major changes, different muffs(straight pipes) ape hangers etc. Had my 30 year old daughter(his wife) on the back who had sworn she was done riding bikes after he crashed a quad and buggered up her knee and his leg(jumping a creek two up on a sport quad.)
He's had his beginner permit 4 days, owned the bike two.
She's refused to ride with me up till now with 3 years back on a bike???

Tried to talk some sense to him but got the usual argument and "you don't know what your talking about". Guess he's got a couple of buddies at work he listens to.
Took me a minute to figure out what he was talking about when he mentioned demon bells. Told me NO ONE calls em gremlin bells.
Two finger wave don't mean keep the rubber side down. Got all kinds of argument about everything.
Bragged about being able to balance the bike upright at a stop for 4 seconds without putting his feet down. AND about being able to lock in the cruise control and set back with his hands behind his head while riding.
Trying to impress me with his "skill and safety??????"

Biggest pill was when i told him he wasn't experienced enough to be riding two up. Especially as he had been on a street bike less then 10 days and had a brand new bike(to him) to learn its little characteristics on. Said he was experienced enough?????

My only real hope is when he eats that suv or rolls into the curve to hot and stands it up after locking the brakes up is he's on the bike alone. Of course he's one of those that won't crash, to experienced.
I give him 30 days if he rides two up much, maybe 90 if he rides solo before he puts it down.
Tried to get him to come in here or to another beginner site to ask the same questions he was arguing with me about. Hasn't done it, don't need to. Just talked to a couple of guys at work and i don't know where they get their info. I mean demon bells among other things??

The only real bight side is God is supposed to watch over fools and small children. He's got to fall in there somewhere. But he definitely fits the Squid bill. Just wish the daughter was still swore off bikes.
It's worry city now.

sorry to hear your daughter is stuck in the middle on this deal - but as Forrest Gump says "Stupid Is as Stupid Does"....referring to your son in law - you are correct he will learn the hard way, hopefully while riding solo.

I am sorry you are going through this. I know it's not the same, but my daughter rides passenger on a HD with a guy on so many pain pills his speech slurs. I had some control for a while but now she moved out and knows everything. I sure hope both of our daughters stay safe.

OMG, I fear for your daughter's safety, even her life.
Buy her the very best gear you can get her to wear FF helmet etc. Have her read these reports...good luck.

A road rash victim's story (a girl)

http://sportbike.natkd.com/road_rash.htm

Then have her read the story below. It's a first hand report of a motorcycle accident. One second of inattentive riding and something like this can happen.
____________________________________________

There were four of us, riding three motorcycles, out for a ride in the country. Elaine, Road Captain, was in the lead on her Honda Magna (700 cc's), riding in the 'left track'. Karen Miller was in the 'slot' (right track) riding her Honda Shadow (500 cc's), and I was riding 'drag' (last) on my Honda GoldWing (1200 cc's) and carrying a guest from Canada, Judy, as a passenger.

We had been on the road since 11:15 that morning and were on the return leg of the trip. It was a clear, though nippy day (60 degree's) with mild traffic on the country road at the time. The road had many gentle curves to it and nobody seemed to have any difficulty negotiating them. We typically drove at posted speed limits and were at approximately 55 MPH at the time of this accident.

I mentioned that Karen was riding in the 'slot' position. We do this with all new members to our group because it is the safest position and we watch how they handle themselves in the group before letting them take any other position. This position keeps the newer drivers as far away from a potential head-on collision as possible.

All three bikes had just come out of a mild right turning curve. Road conditions were nearly perfect with the exception that the lanes seemed to be slightly narrower than one might expect. A white pickup truck was approaching us traveling at somewhat below normal speed in the opposite lane. As we completed the curve I noticed that Karen was in the left track rather than the right one (not unusual after negotiating a curve), but instead of moving to the right to get back into the 'slot', she seemed to be aimed directly for the white truck. She had apparently 'target fixated' (locked her eyes on that truck) and panicked. She (very quickly) crossed the centerline in the road (by about 6 inches) and was headed for a head-on with the truck (she was leaning towards the right, but the bike kept moving leftwards - counter-steering totally forgotten!) when the driver of the truck took very aggressive action to try to avoid the accident and pulled it sharply to the right. This successfully avoided a head-on collision, but Karen still sideswiped the truck, hitting it at it's left-front quarter-panel, and all along its left side from front to back. The combined speed at impact was in excess of 90 MPH.

The impact was heard by Elaine who was two seconds ahead of Karen, myself (two seconds behind Karen), and all the neighbors in the area. Karen's bike did an instantaneous 90 degree bounce off the truck (towards the right), and ended up on the right shoulder of the road pinning her right leg under it. The bike appeared to have exploded (it didn't actually explode) when it hit the truck with pieces of metal, windscreen, and plastic all over the road.

The truck continued moving towards the shoulder of its lane, aided by the force of the impact, and ended up in a ditch having run into a culvert. The driver of the truck sustained facial lacerations from a broken front window, and his passenger appeared unhurt.

Karen, meanwhile, had suffered massive body trauma during the accident. Her left leg was peeled open (literally shredded) from hip to lower leg, compound fractures in several places both above and below the left knee, several ribs on the left side had been broken and punctured her left lung, her liver was 'fractured' as apparently was her spleen, and her diaphragm had been pierced.

It appears (judging from a look at her helmet after the fact) that she had landed on her face and skidded to a stop in the dirt/gravel that was the shoulder of the road. The bike was on its right side, rear-lights still on, dripping gasoline from a ruptured tank. Karen was face down, her right leg, from the knee down, under the right saddlebag, her left leg was above the motorcycle, pointed at an impossible angle towards her head, bootless, and her left thigh bone (from her hip) was protruding through her clothes for a length of over an inch. We inspected her for signs of bleeding, and though we saw plenty of blood, there seemed to be very little of it ongoing that would require some means to control it and we simply would not move her for fear of greater damage.

Karen was moaning loudly and regularly, obviously in great pain. Her breathing was irregular and shallow.

Just after the accident I announced to Elaine, via CB, "Karen's down!", and she pulled her bike off the road to the right, then made a U-turn and returned to the scene. I, meanwhile, clamped down on both brakes, avoiding debris that was all over the road, and brought my bike to a stop just past where Karen lay, had my passenger get off the bike, and disembarked myself. Though my passenger was first to reach Karen, she was of no help whatever. She (Judy) was in shock and was hugging herself in grief. I was next to reach Karen. Three other men reached her within a matter of seconds after I did.

We determined that Karen was alive, that an ambulance was needed immediately, and that she was breathing. One of them wanted to move her (gasoline was spilling out of the tank), and was out-voted instantly. No attempt was made to remove her helmet, though that had also been suggested by one of the other men and out-voted just as quickly.

EACH ONE OF THOSE THREE MEN, AS WELL AS MYSELF, ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS CPR TRAINED AND COULD PROVIDE ASSISTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Elaine (also CPR and First Aid trained) got there and was asked to call 911. Her cellular phone was on my bike and she went to make that call attempt (unsuccessfully - out of range). A neighbor, however, confirmed that a call had already been placed.

I announced to Karen that she had been in an accident, that help was on its way, that she was going to be all right, and asked her to try not to move until they arrived. Two of the other men then took over a 'head watch' - that is, they got down on their hands and knees and continued to reassure Karen while protecting her head from movement of any kind. I then did a close inspection of the rest of Karen's body looking for a major bleeding condition. Even though her thighbone was completely broken and protruding from her pants, (two inches of bone having been amputated by the impact), she had miraculously not severed the major arteries in her leg and there was not major external bleeding that I could see.

I went back to my bike and got out my first aid kit, latex gloves, triangle bandages and breathing mask and took them over to Karen. As there was clearly blood all over the motorcycle and under Karen, I elected to put the latex gloves on. However, I was in rather a lot of confusion myself at the moment and found (I actually watched myself doing it) that instead of opening the zip-lock bag that contained the gloves, I opened the breathing mask package instead. Realizing that I was confused, I put everything in my hands down on the ground next to Karen for use by the other men, and stepped away and began traffic control instead, kicking motorcycle parts off the roadway along the way.

I asked one of the neighbors to get me a fire extinguisher, just in case, which she promptly did. Another brought a blanket from her house and covered Karen with it while we waited for the ambulance.

The ambulance arrived within minutes (possibly five), though it seemed much faster than that at the time. The EMS team was professional in the extreme. At first sight of the extent of Karen's injuries one of the EMS techs instructed the other to order a life flight to the scene. He then told us we had to get the motorcycle off of Karen and four men helped me lift it while the EMS tech lifted her left leg and straightened it out as we got the bike away,( constantly talking to Karen, acknowledging that it hurt and that he had no choice.)

We admonished the EMS tech not to take her helmet off of her until she was in the ambulance, and he readily agreed. The EMS tech cut significant parts of Karen's clothing off of her to inspect her back and sides for trauma. A stretcher board was placed on the ground next to Karen and five people helped turn her on her back and onto the board - insuring that her head/helmet was supported as we did so.

Again, this was very painful to Karen, and the tech gave her constant reassurance and acknowledged that we had to do it to get her to the ambulance.

Karen's left leg was split open to the extent that no outside skin whatever was visible in this new position - only shredded muscle and bone - over a foot WIDE! A substantial amount of blood and gore was left on the ground where she had lain before being moved. On the other hand, even while on her back and with the injuries in full view, it seemed that there was not very much external bleeding going on at all. Nevertheless, Karen was bleeding heavily - internally.

Elaine, in the meantime was comforting Judy, then she went to Karen's bike and collected all of her personal things from it. She (Elaine) then dealt with the investigating police officer who had arrived shortly after the ambulance. She also talked with the driver of the truck and tried to reassure the man that Karen would be OK. Indeed, she told him that his actions probably saved Karen's life. The man was terribly upset about the accident and was simply unable to approach the vicinity of Karen while we waited for help.

Karen was then moved into the ambulance where substantial effort was made to ascertain the extent of her injuries and to assist her with her breathing. Karen apparently did not lose consciousness during the entire episode.

The life flight helicopter landed in one of the neighbor's yards about fifteen minutes later. After what seemed like a long delay (they were trying to stabilize Karen in the ambulance and had to help her breath as her left lung was punctured), she was carried across the street and into the helicopter. It immediately took off and went to Hermann hospital with her. The accident took place at 3:30 and she was in the air on her way to Hermann Hospital by 4:10.

Though still in shock herself, Judy agreed that she was confident enough and willing to remount my motorcycle as passenger for the trip back to my house where we would make arrangements. Elaine then took the lead and we drove the 70 miles or so to get to my home. Both Elaine and I worked our way back to being fully in control before we did this - a period of 30 minutes of talking, thanking all those that had helped, getting phone numbers of the neighbors, and collecting Karen's personal effects. We were in control, but far from being unaffected by what had just happened, so we drove with exceptional
care and caution to my house.

The fact that Karen had been riding with a full face helmet allowed her to survive the accident. We took possession of that helmet in the life flight waiting room at Hermann hospital. It was clear that Karen had ridden, face down, along the asphalt and gravel before coming to a stop. There was a cut over her left eye that her sunglasses caused when they broke, and some bruising at the back of her brain (later found to have been from a prior skiing accident years before), but nothing more was visible other than some mild bleeding coming out of her nose and mouth. The chin part of her helmet was nearly worn thru and there were deep scratches and abrasions on both sides of the helmet where her cheeks were protected. Part of the visor was shattered, but much of it was still attached to the helmet.
At this moment Karen's condition is

I feel for you, Wolfman.

I too was one of the "Jeans & T-shirt" guys until I had my first big spill.
T-boned a "pony express" delivery dispatch rider who had run a red light.
I slammed on the brakes, locked the rear wheel, skidded sideways into him and fell underneath the bike.
I also smacked my head HARD against the kerbside.
My FF helmet saved my face (literally !!!) I kept that helmet for years as a talking piece, until we moved house and it went in the rubbish.
The plain old (tough) jeans did what they could to save my hips from a bad fracture, but I still managed a big thick bruise which generated a permanent callous body on my right hip.
In a bathing suit, it looks like one hip is wider than the other...

I'm not surprised your SIL "knows everything". So did I, at 24.
Then, at 25, I had one accident too many... and grew instantly wiser.

The best I can wish your SIL is "may he learn to be wiser, and tell the story".

All the best  

PS My wife never goes anywhere without her FF, her line is
"better spend a minute brushing my hair (after taking off the helmet) than having nothing to brush, at all".

If they dont have some good insurance, they need it,. She should stay off the bike with that self absorbed clown & he should have as big of a life insurance policy you can afford.

I'd like to know how Karen is doing....

Okay gcsdls, here's Karen's story continued:

At this moment (5:00 am Monday morning) Karen's condition is still critical. We do not yet know if they will be able to save her leg. The operating team noted that there was still a pulse in her lower left leg so there is a chance to save it. We have not yet heard of all the other life threatening injuries she sustained, nor have we determined if there was spinal injury. The best case scenario is that she will be in critical care and ICU for at least four weeks. It is possible that she will not survive at all.

Karen is an active, strong and otherwise healthy woman in her late 40's with lots of spirit. These things may be what make a final difference.

Tuesday November 14th

To those of you that have expressed sympathies and shared prayers for Karen, I thank you deeply.

Karen, whom I visited last night, is still not conscious, though she is not in a coma. She is sleeping from the medication that was used during her operations and is expected to regain consciousness today sometime.

The jury is still out as to whether her leg will be saved, but there is a better chance of it today than yesterday. There has been other very good news as well. The bruise to her brain is an OLD injury, not related to her motorcycle crash this weekend. Her helmet did save her life, without question. Despite riding face down along the highway until she came to a stop on the gravel shoulder, the cut over her left eye (from her broken dark glasses) was the only injury to her head! Her neck X-rays confirmed no damage to it.

Similarly, her spleen and liver seem to have responded very well to ice packing and cauterization. These, neither of them, appear life threatening any longer.

This morning we will find out about other possible spinal injury. However, the doctors acknowledged that her back does not look like it was involved in an accident at all (not even scratched) so they are highly optimistic.

Her color is nearly normal again, though she is puffed up like a balloon. I know it is hard for those of you that have not seen her to get a feel from just my words, but yesterday she was waxy of complexion, and pale gray. Today she is 'pinking up', as well as puffing up. It looks great!, by comparison.

Though still critical, meaning anything could go wrong still, it is beginning to look like Karen's general health and good physical condition before the accident are making significant contributions to her improving condition.

We should know either today or tomorrow if she will lose her leg. As an aside of note: Karen's boyfriend (Rob) was REQUIRED by Karen and the rest of us to take the MSF street rider course before he would be allowed to ride with us. It turns out that he was ATTENDING the MSF class when she had her accident!!! I met Rob at the hospital and have kept him fully informed (and he does the same for me) about Karen's condition. Rob advises that he is absolutely convinced that he will be riding with us, that Karen will also probably get back up on a bike, that her insistence that he buy a full-face helmet (which he did) was an omen and proof that she understands what safety is all about. He also said that 'target fixation' seemed to get unusual emphasis during his MSF class.

For those of you that may now be inclined to give up that bike of yours because of the risks, consider this: "Of course we know that riding a motorcycle involves risks, we are not naive! But being risky does not mean that we take risks. For those of us that want to survive this experience, we want to know all about those risks so that instead of taking them, we manage them and avoid those we can avoid." So says Rob to a member of the family that does not ride and who became aggressively behaved at the hospital.

Wednesday Novwmber 15th

Today she was allowed to awaken, partially, and she was able to communicate. She does not remember the accident and was told only that she had been in a motorcycle accident and that she had broken her leg. That satisfied her and she went right back to sleep. They will awaken her again tomorrow and begin changing her pain killers.

They are done working on her insides! They stitched her liver back together today, but have no idea if it will mend or not at this time. Her back was fine (not even bruised). No spinal injuries! They now are talking about some 20 additional operations over the next three weeks to repair her leg. It is not at all certain that they will be able to save it, but this talk implies that there is certainly hope.

Thursday November 16

Hi, everyone... *takes deep breath* I was at the hospital last night to see Karen and get the day's news.. and will be there again this evening.

Last night, the nurse advised that all surgery was complete for now on her abdomen for the internal injuries to her spleen, liver and diaphragm. Those organs now must be given time to heal, to see if the 'fix' will take.

Today she was to have her left leg cleaned out again in the OR, which will be done perhaps 8 to 10 more times before any plan for reconstructive surgery on the leg can be carried out. She still has circulation in her toes, but the possibility of grafting and rebuilding the muscles and nerves of the upper leg cannot yet be determined.

After this afternoon's surgery, she will be taken off sedatives and brought 'awake' for a while. A pain management team is due to make an assessment of how to best handle the long-term pain in her left leg, such as by giving her epidurals, etc. I expect she will start to be awake and mentally functional tomorrow or the day after...and next week, she'll start having to make decisions.......

Friday November 17

It is like a different reality today. The doctors advise us that Karen will be off the respirator today since she did well without it for a few hours yesterday. Tests of her liver function are positive. There are signs that some internal healing is underway in her left leg -- they intend to keep it open and allow that healing to progress from the inside out in order to watch out for any possible pockets of infection.

Then they told us that they intend to have her SITTING IN A CHAIR for visiting hours this evening! Finally, they told us that their original estimate of about four weeks in Intensive Care is no longer true - that, if she continues to improve as she has been lately, she will be out in less than two!

This is one tough lady. That she was physically fit and healthy at the time of the accident is obviously a major factor that accounts for this rapid turn of events.

Though the doctor was trying to be helpful, this turned out to be exaggeration in the extreme.

I have been asked via e-mail to explain why it is that there was so much damage to Karen in this accident given that it was 'only a sideswipe'.

Well, there is no such thing as a gentle hit at over 90 MPH, but that is only part of the answer.

Karen hit and was compressed into the left front quarter-panel of the truck. The truck, because it had turned away from her, was at an angle and her momentum forced her to travel the entire length of the truck from front to back with increased pressure along the way.

This compression pressure buckled the front quarter panel inwards several inches. The column where the door hinges are mounted did not compress and was over an inch farther out than that panel. Thus, Karen's leg was scraped by a one-inch wide piece of steel from top to bottom, at 90 MPH, and lost that depth of tissue as a result. It is believed that her left grip hit the truck first and snapped off at impact. This impact apparently caused the injuries to her left hand, abdominal area and left ribs.

That the pressure continued to increase all along the side of the truck is evident by the fact that her left peg sliced the truck's left rear tire like a knife (on both sides of the wheel rim). I mean it sliced all the way through that tire's rubber leaving it flat.

I am finished providing details of this accident here believing that all that can be gained by those of you reading them has been conveyed. I did not post these terrible details in an effort to cause discomfort, but to provide a sense of reality and awareness and respect for the awesome forces involved in an accident at highway speeds. If even one of you chooses to upgrade to a full-face helmet as a result, I am vindicated. If even one of you now knows how powerful 'target fixation' is and develops a mind set that insures your control of it, we might have a brother/sister rider on the road with us for years to come as a result.


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