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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!! (Read 510 times)
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #15 - 11/05/13 at 10:34:46
 
That's what we do... needle spacer...
... but,.. if you're into experimenting,... (which it appears you are) Wink...
there is an airjet above the rubber diaphragm accessed from the top... (making it larger or smaller will change the amount of vacuum pulling at the slide)...(not sure which way does which)...

Adjustment of enrichment at full vacuum decel,.. is the TEV's job... but by playing with the spring, you are only adjusting when it activates, which will make it activate when it shouldn't...
Not sure how,.. but you need to adjust how much fuel it adds, rather than when...

I believe the TEV is not really doing much incremental fuel control... more like the vac-pet,.. it's open or closed...
...(a tapered needle, is incremental... a flat stopper, is on/off)...

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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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DavidOfMA
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #16 - 11/05/13 at 11:06:47
 
My hope is that by getting it to activate a bit earlier, I'll get more fuel during decel. What I'd really like to do is slightly enlarge whatever the TEV squirts fuel through, but looking it over I couldn't figure it out.

I'll look into your suggestion if I can't get the TEV mod to work. I'm not into experimenting, but I would like to eliminate the backfiring and the air screw adjustment doesn't do it.
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #17 - 11/05/13 at 11:14:55
 
What I find that eliminates backfire is throttle. I've gotten pretty good at controlling the backfire while riding by smoothing out the way I get on the throttle.

As a matter of fact, I can decide pretty much decide when I want it to backfire...cuz sometimes it's just a matter of letting people know where you are... Wink

Awhile back I messed with the TEV and it made my bike run horrible, smoke like a diesel and it did actually get rid of the backfire...i put it back to the stock spring...
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #18 - 11/05/13 at 11:34:40
 
Yep......throttle application (or de-application) can make a big difference.  When you close the throttle all the way....it will backfire.  If you can keep it just slightly open (fast idle), it makes alot less noise.  If you chop the throttle while shifting gears.....your gonna make some noise.

The TEV does operate through some brass jets.....we just need to figure out which one you want to be richer.  The key is not in making it run sooner.....it needs to be a bit richer.
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #19 - 11/05/13 at 11:36:50
 
I can mostly control backfire when I'm riding alone, but when I'm in a tight pack of 20 bikes hurtling through the twisties, I have to open up or jam shut the throttle frequently and often abruptly. And that's when I get a lot of backfires and some annoyed or startled fellow riders.
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Update
Reply #20 - 11/07/13 at 05:15:17
 
I think I'm closing in on "no backfires." I trimmed about 1/8" off the length of the stock spring (half a full round) and took the bike on a couple of short rides. This small reduction in spring tension had no apparent effect on idle, but I had only one backfire and shutoff afterfire between the two rides. I went out of my way to rev and chop the throttle when I could.  

I need to take it out on the highway and then aggressively ride some twisties to be sure, but it does seem like I'm heading in the right direction, and that a little less spring tension, which holds the TEV open just a little longer, should finally fix this problem on my particular bike, a stock 2007 at sea level.

YMMV but I think this technique is worth another look by anybody with a similar problem who has already tweaked the idle mix and idle speed and cleaned the carb, including the TEV.  
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I think I've got it working -- no backfires
Reply #21 - 11/09/13 at 10:47:55
 
Quote:
This mod has never worked out as intended....

 Cheesy I think the yellow warning at the head of this thread needs to be revised. I took the bike out on an hour-long ride that combined highway, back roads, and town driving and tried to simulate the kind of ride that would make it backfire, gunshot style. I got a couple of little pops from time to time, but no gunshots at all while riding. I still get a gunshot crack on shutdown at least half the time, but I think that's a different issue.

I believe this is a good technique to try if simply turning out the idle mix screw doesn't get rid of backfires.

Reading over the earlier, locked thread, I think the problem most people had was using too weak a spring or taking too much off the stock spring, so the TEV was engaged all the time. The 1/8" I took off the length only slightly weakens it, but it seems to allow just enough additional fuel to flow on high-vacuum decels to prevent backfiring. At some point I may trim another 1/16 or so off the spring to see if it helps with after fire, or if the backfires come back on an actual group ride, but for now I'm happy. The bike is much more fun to ride without having to monitor my throttle use to keep from backfiring.
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #22 - 11/10/13 at 15:11:59
 
Dave wrote on 11/05/13 at 11:34:40:
The TEV does operate through some brass jets.....we just need to figure out which one you want to be richer.  The key is not in making it run sooner.....it needs to be a bit richer.

Just took a quick look at the TEV again. I assume by "operates through some brass jets," I gather there are jets that are underneath the TEV plunger that aren't called out in the exploded diagram of the carb on sites like this one?

http://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/suz/506b36c3f870022ba8af9e73/carbu...

It would be nice to do it "right" by installing a slightly larger jet, if that's so, rather than nibbling away at the spring.
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #23 - 11/10/13 at 17:08:42
 
The parts list doesn't help much - somebody with a carb in their hands needs to look closely at the TEV circuit....and see where it pulls the fuel and air from.  It may be that it uses the Enrichment lever circuit.  The parts list shows part 40.....No. 2 air pilot jet?????  What does that one serve...the enrichment circuit?
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #24 - 11/11/13 at 06:27:19
 
Dave wrote on 11/10/13 at 17:08:42:
The parts list doesn't help much - somebody with a carb in their hands needs to look closely at the TEV circuit....and see where it pulls the fuel and air from.  It may be that it uses the Enrichment lever circuit.  The parts list shows part 40.....No. 2 air pilot jet?????  What does that one serve...the enrichment circuit?  

Hmmm... that would make sense, that it uses the enrichment circuit. I do have a partial spare carb but I'm not sure what to disassemble in order to see where the fuel and air for the TEV come from. Also, if that's the case, then changing a jet to enrich the TEV could make the enrichener too rich to properly run the bike cold, couldn't it?
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #25 - 11/13/13 at 09:53:46
 
Been riding for a while now with the slightly-clipped TEV spring and I think this is a pretty good workaround for an S40 that backfires a lot at sea level, for which turning out the idle mix screw is not sufficient and that has no air leaks. It's gotten cold here, but the backfires are still gone and otherwise the bike runs the same.

I'd like to see it back in the tech section. The trick is to remove only a little of the spring at a time until the backfires stop. It might be a different amount for different years or altitudes, but it probably won't be more than I had to clip, since I'm literally at sea level, where it's running leaner than it is for folks in the hills and mountains.

My two cents, anyway. Made the difference between I bike I decided to trade toward something else and one I'll hold onto a while longer.

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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #26 - 11/14/13 at 09:32:37
 
If it works for you then that's great...
For me I don't think it would ever work...it's not uncommon for me to change elevation by 4-7,000 feet in the span of 30 minutes...
My bike can run perfectly fine with no pops, cracks or booms and then I ride over a pass and it all goes out the window...
BUT, I wouldn't trade my rides through the mountains for anything...
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Re: Backfires & Afterfire gone completely!!!
Reply #27 - 11/14/13 at 09:46:17
 
I bet it would work for you, too. It just makes the decel a little richer. Too rich at 4000,' probably, but only briefly, and only a little longer than the TEV richens the mix anyway. If I ever get up to 4000' I'll let you know if there's a down side to the fix, such as idle dropping too low on decel. Still too early to see the effect on gas mileage, but I'm fine with trading a few mpg for a quieter ride.
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