SuzukiSavage.com - Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?

MMRanch

Serious Thumper

Offline

Evil flourishes if
Good Men do Nothing.

Posts: 5833
LYNCHBURG TN
Gender: male

Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
04/18/12 at 08:23:49

What would couse :

Knock - only above 2000 rpm and only under throdle ?

on de-acceleration all the knock goes away (smoth as a babys butt)

so from 80mph "Down" to 30mph is just as smoth and quiet as posible (Valves are right), (Bearing are right) , couldn't be quieter !

But from 40mph to 80mph it sounds like the piston is smacking the Head !

What could it be ??? Could cam timing do that ?/?? Something about the Combustion process ????

Its been suggested ; Use the mechanics sethithoscope , tried that , but : unless the motor us under pull its perfect.

Huh

Back to top

I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see.

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #1 - 04/18/12 at 08:52:04 knock under load could be gas or ignition as in bad gas or bad sparky or plug wire or coil or spark timing. if you didn't swap a four speed for a 5 speed then timing should be ok. You didn't put in a high compression pistion did you?
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28630 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #2 - 04/18/12 at 09:29:29 Ditto,... the bad gas... If not,.. Have you been running rich?... could be carbon build-up...
Back to top	Ludicrous Speed !... ... ... IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12670 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #3 - 04/18/12 at 21:36:03 Hee hee !!! He did a piston, and made himself a high lift cam (loves to weld, he does).
Back to top	Former Savage Owner IP Logged

MMRanch

Serious Thumper

Offline

Evil flourishes if
Good Men do Nothing.

Posts: 5833
LYNCHBURG TN
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #4 - 04/18/12 at 22:45:10

Yea Versey

I did put a wesico piston in (95mm).

but the fact is it was making the same noise befor. I thought it was piston slap is what brought on the new piston in the first place. Well I know it not piston slap now.

The noise has gotten worse with the new piston.

Thought it might be exaust leak at the header , so I put a quiet muffler and new gasket on the head-pipe. tighten the head-pipe first just to make sure it sealed ... then put on the muffler. Still same noise.#@$%^&%&*(&^ it.

I'm wondering : Does it seam posible the cam chain has stretched to the point of cousing the valve timing to be slow enought to make a problem or .... did I even get the valve timing right, ( seems like it could have been between (one to fast and next one to slow)).

So ... I'm ready to expermit some : Something has to change ;

If I jump foward one tooth on the valve timing ????

Huh

I run 93 fuel , I call it fuel becouse we doin't get real gas around these parts anymore. but its as fresh as I can get . Shell 93% some times Texaco but at least 92%.

Back to top

I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see.

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #5 - 04/18/12 at 23:12:40 How about a different cause... loose nut on the drive pulley?
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Serowbot

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

Posts: 28630
Tucson Az
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #6 - 04/18/12 at 23:24:22

I assume with the new piston, that it ain't carbon build-up...
I don't think the cam chain could stretch that much without breaking...
(can't think it through right now,.. but, would a slack c-chain advance or retard?)...
May sound insane,.. but, try some Marvel's Mystery oil, (cap full, maybe two, in the tank... I cured a heck of a racket in a Datsun with that... (did you do valves when you changed piston?)...
.. if that don't do it,.. I think you're goin' back in to check the rings n' bearings...

PS,.. thanks for the 454 pulley tip,.. I'm workin' on it... Wink

...

PSS...
verslagen1 wrote on 04/18/12 at 23:12:40:

How about a different cause... loose nut on the drive pulley?

WOW!... Versy blew me away with that one!... but, yes... check that pulley... I've been fooled by that sucker...
Wink

....

Back to top

Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh

...

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #7 - 04/18/12 at 23:38:04 it's about a degree of retard with every .010" stretch. you did measure your chain while you had it out.... didn't you? but I don't think that would give you a knock.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

MMRanch

Serious Thumper

Offline

Evil flourishes if
Good Men do Nothing.

Posts: 5833
LYNCHBURG TN
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #8 - 04/19/12 at 08:07:19

It sure is good to have you fellers to bounce things off of !

Serowbot I guess adding a little more mystery into the mix can't hurt anything Grin

I woke-up this morning having nightmares about : Combustion( Angry

) jerking the valves open then letting them slam-shut (Free Fall type) Then the rocker arm catching the falling valve in free fall and knocking it the other way (cartoon style). Didn't make any sense to me either once I thought about it. Undecided

I just set the bobbin/Needle timing on a new/returned sewing machine my wife brought home , and can't help but wonder if the same thing is the Savage's problem. ????

Well ... I can re-tork the Head-bolts while I'm in there . If moving the timing chain one tooth fixes it , I'll have a story to tell !!! ???? Heck that will be a story anyway !

Huh

Back to top

I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see.

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #9 - 04/19/12 at 11:16:01

Don't do the shift a gear tooth thing --- it is way way way too much.

Tongue

Shifting an entire tooth would make your bike run like crap. If you shifted to the "advanced" side you might get what you got now. Might check that line up again though to see if you did accidentally.

======================

Knock only occurs on heavy acceleration, knock is not associated with a bearing location.

======================

basic stuff -- did you check all your engine mounting bolts to make sure they were all tight? I had a hell of a hard acceleration knock when my top and front engine mounts were half tight one time.

Look at your frame engine mounting tubes/brackets -- any cracks or broken welds?

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28630 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #10 - 04/19/12 at 12:24:01 MM,.. don't know if it's related, but I'm getting rubbing against the case with the larger pulley install... Might check yours for clearance...
Back to top	Ludicrous Speed !... ... ... IP Logged

MMRanch

Serious Thumper

Offline

Evil flourishes if
Good Men do Nothing.

Posts: 5833
LYNCHBURG TN
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #11 - 04/19/12 at 12:51:00

Serowbot

I did take a few thousands off the outer rim of mine while I had it chucked up in the Lath. Mainly a trueing it up action , but still took off .010 to .015" from the outer rim. If you could let the motor spin the pulley while you put a file up to it , that would amount to the same thing I did.

I'm going to do what OldFeller suggested. Take it apart and check everything as I go in . If I doin't find anything wrong or loose .?????
Huh

get back with you fellers !

Wink

Back to top

I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see.

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Online Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle? Reply #12 - 04/19/12 at 21:26:39 verslagen1 wrote on 04/18/12 at 23:12:40: How about a different cause... loose nut on the drive pulley? did you check the torque?
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

MMRanch

Serious Thumper

Offline

Evil flourishes if
Good Men do Nothing.

Posts: 5833
LYNCHBURG TN
Gender: male

Re: Knock , Knock , who twisted the throdle?
Reply #13 - 04/19/12 at 21:40:41

So OldFeller

If (The Majic Word) Cheesy

If Valve are working one tooth ahead of time ... then exaust is opening Half way down and intake is not letting enough in ???? That would make for perty-sorry performance .

If Valve are working one tooth behind time .... There could be a lot of Vacum on the intake stroke , and with an open throdle the valve could(?) get pulled away from the rocker arm ??? then slap back to it at some point . ?????

That seem posible ????

It seem like the marks wouldn't level , it was either go tilt forward or backwards I think I chose forward ??? but can't remember for sure ! Embarrassed

I'm going to have to take the top off again (like it or not Lips Sealed

). But it probley time to re tork the head bolts anyway.

Back to top

I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see.

IP Logged