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Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Meter? (Read 448 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #15 - 04/11/12 at 07:00:29
 
Nope, not all threads are created equal. I suspect an O2 sensor would have pipe threads, if so, a pipe coupling can be had for a dollar & a 4"nipple for not much,, heck, if you know the guy at the store & he doesnt mind, you could possibly return the nipple if you dont have a need to keep it,. Every welder I know has a cut off saw,, cutting the coupling down would take all of a minute,,
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weracerc
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #16 - 04/11/12 at 07:16:10
 
forgive me for intruding and offering maybe a stupid idea, but - could you take the bike to a shop with a diagnositc reader like they use here in NC to read the exhaust on the car at annual inspection time (car has to blow clean or no pass inspection)...shove the probe up the tail pipe deal and get the readings as a baseline maybe a cheap simple way to get the process started.....the only reason i offer this is because my brother in law has a shop and he does my car inspections - perhaps if this would work I will get him to "sniff" the bike with the probe and tell me whether my bike is rich or lean....sorry in advance if this is too stupid or way too off base.
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spacepirates
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #17 - 04/11/12 at 08:13:44
 
weracerc wrote on 04/11/12 at 07:16:10:
forgive me for intruding and offering maybe a stupid idea, but - could you take the bike to a shop with a diagnositc reader like they use here in NC to read the exhaust on the car at annual inspection time (car has to blow clean or no pass inspection)...shove the probe up the tail pipe deal and get the readings as a baseline maybe a cheap simple way to get the process started.....the only reason i offer this is because my brother in law has a shop and he does my car inspections - perhaps if this would work I will get him to "sniff" the bike with the probe and tell me whether my bike is rich or lean....sorry in advance if this is too stupid or way too off base.


Nope, this is the kind of stuff I want to hear. cheaper is always better and free is best!

Concerns with this method: how far up does the probe have to go? would a reasonable shop charge me for this? This would only be able to test the bike at a stand-still, but I could probably check all the fuel circuits (idle to WOT) reasonably well. You'd imagine a shop might do this for free, but they do charge for emissions inspection here (PA) so who knows.

I'd be curious to see what requirements the probe has to be accurate (how far up the tail pipe, how long it has to be there, is heat an issue, etc.).
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #18 - 04/11/12 at 08:53:49
 
Maybe call around & see if anyone who runs a dyno could test that while you run it thru its paces? YES, I know,, it breaks on of the 10 commandments
Pay not for services which you can do for yourself,,

But it mite be a good starting spot,, then you could go & diddle with it & take it back & re-run it ( followup runs are generally at a very low price, like $10.00,, ) & se what all that diddling gained you.

The guy I talked to told me if I ran mine on it, he coul;d tell me what jetting changes to make, I could come back & rerun it for cheap..
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spacepirates
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #19 - 04/11/12 at 12:43:23
 
Bought the cheap-o O2 sensor off amazon for $15 (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-12014-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B0009IK7YC). Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here.

It looks like it only has a single wire out, which means that that wire is the positive lead and the negative/ground lead is the exhaust pipe/engine/frame.

My plan is to toy around with the sensor before doing anything irreversible to my header to see if I can get any sort of voltage out of the thing, maybe stick it up the tail pipe and see if that changes anything. Then I'll take it to Lowe's and hunt down a cheap fitting for it, because on second thought, $11 for a glorified nut just seems wrong. I'll bother some buddies of mine with welding skills if I can coerce them into doing me a favor and if not, to a pro welder I go.

here's hoping everything turns out decently over the next week.



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bill67
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #20 - 04/11/12 at 15:37:25
 
My carb is and air fuel meter Cool
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spacepirates
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #21 - 04/12/12 at 08:17:31
 
Got some advice from a buddy at work that did this for his Nova. There is a lot more theory here than I was anticipating, a lot of which I can't use. Supposedly there is a "sweet spot" for O2 sensors, typically in a short pipe right after the collector for all the headers. We've only got one header, so that makes things simple, but we've also only got maybe a foot of viable length on the header to weld anything in.

I was also told a high-end multimeter should have capabilities to record a graph of voltage output from the O2 sensor. Don't expect me to go drop $400 on one though, perhaps there is one at work I can borrow for an evening....

He talked me into trying to do this myself, rather than take it to a welder. Picked up a 115v MIG welder (flux core only) that I'll try to experiment with. Good thing is that if I royally screw anything up, he should be able to repair just about anything for the cost of a bottle of American Honey whiskey (which, by the way, is mighty tasty on its own or in a glass of iced tea  Cool ).

To sum up: the idea is sound and feasible, though it can get complicated if you want to do it "right" and I'm going to try and fumble my way through welding this thing in myself in the hopes that I don't muck it up too bad  Undecided
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mpescatori
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #22 - 04/12/12 at 23:49:21
 
My two cents' worth.

The Suzuki Savage uses a Mikuni carb; I personally do not know whether this is a "constant airflow" or a "constant vacuum" carb, but I do know that, when it comes to classic cars, there are two fundamental schools of engineering:
- Dell'Orto Carbs - which includwes Webers and Solex, and similar licensed designs,
- SU (Skinner Union) Carbs - which includes many Zenith-Stromberg units.

I do not know how Holley carbs are designed, but the Savage doesn't need a triple or more...  Wink

The interesting point is that a properly adjusted SU (whether the old school SU HS or the more recent SU HIF) actually has more fuel-adjusting points than an entry-level EFI unit.

http://www.sucarb.co.uk/

This means that a properly jetted SU HS2 or HS4 (1 1/4" or 1 1/2" slide and butterfly, respectively) may well prove to be more suited,
especially for a vehicle which rides/drives mostly in a mountainous area, where changes of altitude (and AFR) are the norm.

SU HS4 (external float chamber)



SH HiF4 (integral float chamber)


All this may be quite beyond Spacepirates' interest... he lives in Florida...
...but to someone living in the Rockies it might be food for thought.

Smiley
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Halvor
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #23 - 04/14/12 at 00:46:19
 
Hello. My next mod plan is to integrate this meter into the headlight. I will mount the sensor right before the silencer.
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Savage 96, Enfield muffler. Lowered forks. Progressive springs Drag bar. big head light. GL1000 fender. small back light. Black. mini turn lamps, vm36 180-20. o2 sensor ! K&N
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spacepirates
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Igni Ferroque

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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #24 - 04/16/12 at 06:32:58
 
Didn't end up having enough time this weekend to do much but try to adjust the jetting on the savage (which turned out poorly, by the way).

Girlfriend is going out of town for two weeks though, so that should give me plenty of time to pay more attention to my bikes.

The O2 sensor did come in the mail on Friday. I took it to Lowe's and tried to find a nut to fit the threads. They only had one 3/4 inch nut, but the threads were too coarse on that (I think it was a 10 count thread). Oh well, the hunt continues. maybe an auto-parts store will have something.
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RidgeRunner13
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #25 - 04/16/12 at 06:42:39
 
K&N sells a complete kit for this, and O'reillys' has a couple of different gauges that don't come with O2 sensors.

For the 'nut', just go to a salvage yard & find a section of pipe after the cat. that you can cut out & get it from. You may even get lucky & find a piece of pipe you can use between the head pipe & muffler. Cool

I don't know if your idea of cheap is $50 or $250, but you could put together something for under $100 using salvaged parts.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #26 - 04/16/12 at 07:13:09
 
Surely there is a wholesale nut & bolt sales place in town,, They can find the size & thread pitch you need, Are you sure its not pipe thread? Is it tapered?
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spacepirates
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Igni Ferroque

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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #27 - 04/16/12 at 07:16:23
 
RidgeRunner13 wrote on 04/16/12 at 06:42:39:
K&N sells a complete kit for this, and O'reillys' has a couple of different gauges that don't come with O2 sensors.

For the 'nut', just go to a salvage yard & find a section of pipe after the cat. that you can cut out & get it from. You may even get lucky & find a piece of pipe you can use between the head pipe & muffler. Cool

I don't know if your idea of cheap is $50 or $250, but you could put together something for under $100 using salvaged parts.


Yeah, my idea of cheap is <$25, ha ha. the salvage yard is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that one...
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spacepirates
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Igni Ferroque

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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #28 - 04/16/12 at 07:24:21
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 04/16/12 at 07:13:09:
Surely there is a wholesale nut & bolt sales place in town,, They can find the size & thread pitch you need, Are you sure its not pipe thread? Is it tapered?  


you love pipe threads!  Grin

There most likely is a nuts & bolts place around. heck, there are probably a dozen of them, I just can't think of any off the top of my head. 80 degree weather today, maybe I'll take a detour after work and hunt around for one a little bit. That's the good and the bad about Pittsburgh, we've got whatever you're looking for, but it is probably hard to find and a pain in the neck to get to  Wink That's what you get for trying to put a major city between a bunch of hills and three rivers. a big 'ole mess of streets.

The thread on the sensor isn't tapered. I *think* it might be 3/4-16, but I wouldn't bet more than a few bucks on it. I'll upload a picture when I get home.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #29 - 04/16/12 at 10:57:28
 
Find bolts & lay thread into thread, or, grab a tool, they make a diameter/pitch tool. Not uncommon to see them hanging in the nut /bolt department.

Your SURE it aint a pipe thread? Reeaaalllyyy?? Smiley
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