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Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Meter? (Read 448 times)
spacepirates
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Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Meter?
04/10/12 at 11:01:44
 
... Using an O2 sensor off a car?

Here is my train of thought:
Jetting is an art, and is a long process to do. Often times you cover up a lean spot with a rich spot or vice versa and it is more qualitative than quantitative when you are trying to measure how well it is jetted.
What we are shooting for here, is a "perfect" air/fuel mixture, roughly 14.7:1 (depending on the gas used).
In the push for more efficient engines, the O2 sensor was developed to measure and adjust the air/fuel mixture (technically, it just measures left over oxygen...) in EFI cars. BUT, it has to give some sort of output or recognizable control signal to do so. This is done via a voltage, between .2v and .8v (lower being leaner, .45v ideal mixture. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor#Zirconia_sensor)
There exist AFR (air/fuel ratio) meters already, but those are hundreds of dollars and I'm one cheap SOB.

I've stumbled across this site:
http://www.scirocco.org/tech/misc/afgauge/af.html

I want to take it one step easier/cheaper:
In your opinion(s), given that someone out there probably knows better than I do, would it be possible/accurate/feasible/"worth it" to take a cheap O2 sensor ($25?) and wire it to a multimeter such that I can read the voltage to get a better idea of how my bike is jetted?

I would have to mount the O2 sensor somehow/somewhere and think about how accurate this setup would be.

Thoughts? Would it be too much effort to mount an O2 sensor? Would this not work for some reason I didn't think of?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #1 - 04/10/12 at 11:19:20
 
Well,, pardon me for saying so,, but I think youre some kinda Smart!  I mean,, the O2 sensors in the exhaust of a car send a signal, decoded by the computer & used to adjust injector firing, right? I dont see why reading your exhaust cant be used to tell you where you are lean/rich in your rpm ranges,, & under heavy/light loads..
Getting a sensor installed,,, hmmm,,, How about getting a short sleeve cut to put between the header & muffler, so it doesnt have to be permanent? Put it in, make the runs, study the meter, see what the carb needs, adjust ( or not) & pull it off & put it in the toolbox..?
The header is double walled outfit, so, installing there requires cutting thru both,, gonna be messy..
Or, maybe poke a hole in the muffler inlet & have the threaded pipe welded in there? That would keep the exhaust the same length & keep the mounts lining up..
You could take it off & have it done on the lower, inside area & run the wires up the canister carrier & up the frame, under the tank & to the handlebars..
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #2 - 04/10/12 at 12:14:47
 
Just take a voltage reading across the O2 sensor connectors while it is hooked up to a good-running car.  Then tune your bike to try to get it to match that voltage at most loads/RPM/throttle positions.  Simple!!  Grin
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #3 - 04/10/12 at 12:37:53
 
On a more helpful note, this thread shows an install/use of a not-too-expensive AFR meter.  Of course you'd still have to find a good place to mount it.

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/876726-no-cost-dr650-jetting-upgrade-%E2%80%...
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #4 - 04/10/12 at 12:42:12
 
To be fair, I'm really only trying to be cheap where other people have gone the safe route. I have a bad habit of over-simplifying things and getting burned because of it.

Inserting a short sleeve sounds like the most re-usable method, but that changes muffler length and requires that you "compromise" your header/muffler seal/connection.

I'd like to avoid involving the header. Smaller, more curved, more walls, harder to replace (and by that i mean it is more expensive and less common than mufflers).

I don't know enough about O2 sensors to reasonably decide where it could be placed. I mean, if the bike isn't moving, couldn't you just shove it up the muffler  Grin

Maybe if you drilled and tapped a hole in the muffler that you could either permanently leave the O2 sensor in, or otherwise plug up afterwards.
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #5 - 04/10/12 at 12:46:29
 
With the limitations already mentioned about the stock header construction, it would be much more feasible to install near/on the muffler. the problem here is exhaust gas velocity, as the gasses enter the muffler they slow down substantially due to the larger diameter. With installing the sensor at the start of the muffler, you would need to do it in such a way as to subject the probe to a constant, flowing stream of exhaust gasses, in order to avoid false readings from stagnant "pockets" of air. In addition, one would need to avoid impeding the actual flow of air with a blockage in the duct, in which case it is highly dependent on the diameter and length of the sensor probe as well as placement.

another little bump in the road here is that once you get your engine tuned correctly at one Temperature/Air density/humidity level/engine load, your bike may require a different mixture at other atmospheric levels. The good thing is, however, most everyone leaves the jetting alone once it is "close" until it interferes with the ridability of the motorcycle, and only then do we change it. so, with a few pulls on a dyno, we can get the bike running just about perfect for full-load runs at a specific temp/air density and be ahead of the game. At that point, do some "normal" pulls to replicate street riding and ensure the mixtures stay in a safe zone, and rideability is preserved.

Data logging software would be extremely useful here because it's hard enough to whack the throttle open from off-idle to redline in 4th gear and be safe about it, (on the street) than to add in keeping an eye on a multimeter readout and taking notes  Shocked Also a much higher level of accuracy is gained, since many digital multimeters take samples at fewer intervals than what is required to obtain high-quality readings. Simply stated, your bike may go from rich to lean to rich again quicker than the meter can react, and you won't notice because it just showed rich for the entire time. Several 'pulls' must be done, in a high enough gear, to ensure accurate readings are obtained over the entire RPM range, And this is all for a strictly Wide-open throttle condition- intake velocity is different at varying RPMs with different throttle openings, such as 1/2 throttle at 5000 RPM vs. full throttle at 1200 RPM. higher velocities mean more pressure differential, which all comes out to more fuel being drawn into the intake. This is why FI is so dang nice... a computer does all these calculations and adjusts for them, based on throttle position, intake vacuum, RPM, ambient temperature, intake airflow velocity, and sometimes even which gear you are in, in addition to adjusting the timing of the spark to go with the different fuel maps.

Rob
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #6 - 04/10/12 at 12:48:36
 
Boule’tard wrote on 04/10/12 at 12:14:47:
Just take a voltage reading across the O2 sensor connectors while it is hooked up to a good-running car.  Then tune your bike to try to get it to match that voltage at most loads/RPM/throttle positions.  Simple!!  Grin


According to my research (I love saying that), the ideal voltage for a Zirconia-style sensor is .45v. That wikipedia page I linked to earlier also has readings for other style O2 sensors.

that thumpertalk thread is good stuff, but I think the AFR sensor he used was still fairly pricey. and by that i mean more than $20. It does show me how an O2 sensor looks in relation to a header though, much more intrusive than I expected (as in, the sensor sticks out into the header a lot).

I'll have to chew on this a bit further. The electronics don't bother me, it is mounting the O2 sensor that is getting me. I don't have a machine shop at my back, nor do i have a welder (or even a tap and dye set!) so we'll see. either way, food for thought for anyone more mechanically ambitious for the time being.
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #7 - 04/10/12 at 12:54:15
 
sorry to have gone off on a tangent there. I guess what i was meaning to get across is that it should be possible to get a more accurate idea of what your bike needs with a slaved in 02 sensor, than it would be without one. However, you must already be pretty familiar with how to jet a carburetor, to fully appreciate and ultimately be able to use the readings you obtain from the sensor.


My Savage will have a bung installed in the exhaust i will be making for it, just for this purpose. I bet a dial-a-jet would be very useful here for on-the-fly adjustments, hmmm need to order one now for my VM36...
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #8 - 04/10/12 at 13:30:37
 
Id think a drill to poke a hole & a short coupling to have welded in wouldnt be that big of a deal,, you mite even be able to find a machine shop to do it for cheap.. I had one drill a hole for me in some pretty tuff steel, ( I had no idea how hard it was till he stated drilling),, I would have spent more buying the bit & my pukey drill press wouldnt have done it, not in a year. I worked in a shop & we had a welder,, but maybe thats not so common,
Call around to a few machine shops, & welding shops,, a welder with a drill press shouldnt be that strange.. ya never know,, sometimes those guys just treat people nice. I sectioned my header out when I took the interior pipe out. I did it carefully & made it so putting it back would be easy. I found a guy who tig welded it back,, he let me walk,, free,, of course,, I watched & was aware of what he would need & was there with it & put everything back exactly where I got it,, & he saw I respected him & his shop,, & that never hurts,,


A pipe coupling, shortened, on a cut off grinder, otta work fine,, just get a nipple to screw in one end so you can steady it in the cutoff tool.
No need for a tap..drill & weld it in,
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #9 - 04/10/12 at 13:57:36
 
I've looked at one of the instructions for a/f meters and they menstion stuff like pre heating so I think there's more to it then hooking a vom to it and getting a reading.

As to placement... has to be far enough from the end to prevent blow back from the outside screwing up the readings.  The temporary ones have a probe that stuck up past the muffler and have an exhaust extention just as long, all coiled up.
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #10 - 04/10/12 at 15:21:25
 
Just did a quick look on flea-bay for a spare header, doesn't look like there are any. bummer, as it does seem like the header is the place to put the O2 sensor.

spit-balling the price for reading it with a voltmeter:
header - free
bung/O2 mount - $10
O2 sensor - $25
drilling/welding - free if DIY or ?
AFR gauge electronics - $10 (optional)

So for $50 and a beer (to pay your friend with or to drink yourself!) you've got a start (if anyone in the pittsburgh area would like a beer, i've got a header if you've got a welder *hint hint nudge nudge*). and assuming you can leave the O2 sensor and volt meter attached (safely!) while riding I'm sure you can get a better idea of your jetting than just "feels lean" or "feels about right."

My header is wrapped (oh no! horror of all horrors!) but I think this project would be worth unwrapping it. plus then we get to see if wrap over a year (roughly) and some nasty wet weather is really horrible for your pipe!

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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #11 - 04/10/12 at 15:56:22
 
Well on the bright side, if you don't like the looks of the sensor/bung setup, you can always grind it off more or less flush, seal it up and once you re-mummify it, you won't see any difference.

I am surprised you can find a sensor for 25 bucks.  I thought they were around $100 just for the plug, never mind any electronics.

Hopefully you can bribe someone with a welder over there, install it and post some pics. Of course you realize, if you are successful, everyone and their dog is going to want you to try their particular filter/jetting/muffler setup.. hmmm maybe you can charge for that and recoup some of the cost!  Cheesy
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #12 - 04/10/12 at 18:53:41
 
Boule’tard wrote on 04/10/12 at 15:56:22:
Well on the bright side, if you don't like the looks of the sensor/bung setup, you can always grind it off more or less flush, seal it up and once you re-mummify it, you won't see any difference.

I am surprised you can find a sensor for 25 bucks.  I thought they were around $100 just for the plug, never mind any electronics.

Hopefully you can bribe someone with a welder over there, install it and post some pics. Of course you realize, if you are successful, everyone and their dog is going to want you to try their particular filter/jetting/muffler setup.. hmmm maybe you can charge for that and recoup some of the cost!  Cheesy


Yeah, I won't see a difference, but I'd still *know*.

Bung: http://www.amazon.com/Holley-534-49-Weld-In-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B00029JK32
Sensor: http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-15717-Oxygen-Sensor-Fitment/dp/B000BZI4JS/ref=sr_...

Those aren't shopping around, I just immediately go to Amazon and then search around and price check after. I don't know what they'd be at autozone or elsewhere, and there are plenty in the $90+ range on amazon too. Not sure why there is a difference, but we really aren't going for dead-on accuracy or 100k+ mile lifetime on these things, so cheap should work.

As for matching people's setups, sadly, I busted my stock carb by punching the air/fuel mixture screw into the carb and stripping the threads and head, so now I'm on a VM38. BUT! (and there is always a "but") I could always sell kits! but that isn't very lucrative or very fair. oh well. I'll recoup the cost with the value of lots of sound sleep knowing my bike is jetted as well as a carb in varying elevations and weather conditions can be (read: just moderately ok).

Like I said before, give me a few more days to mull this over and talk with some more automotively educated fellows about the feasibility and maybe in a week or two we can see if I've just been wasting everyone's time here or not.

EDIT: to clarify, the bung costs $11 shipped (with amazon Prime) (model: Holley 534-49 Weld-In Oxygen Sensor Bung) and that spark plug costs $24.25 (also amazon prime) (model:  Bosch 15717 Oxygen Sensor, OE Type Fitment). There is also a Bosch 12014 Oxygen Sensor for $15 shipped, but I'm not even sure if these parts are compatible with each other.
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #13 - 04/10/12 at 22:49:36
 
Id have to go to an auto parts store & have a look at the threads on an 02 sensor. Its it pipe thread, youd be paying way too much,, kinda takin it in the "bung" hole, so to speak,, to pay $10.00 for a bung.
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Re: Is it possible to make a cheap DIY Air Fuel Me
Reply #14 - 04/11/12 at 05:45:47
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 04/10/12 at 22:49:36:
Id have to go to an auto parts store & have a look at the threads on an 02 sensor. Its it pipe thread, youd be paying way too much,, kinda takin it in the "bung" hole, so to speak,, to pay $10.00 for a bung.


Threads are threads, right? You could *probably* find a big nut that fits an O2 sensor and weld that in instead for a few cents.
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