SuzukiSavage.com - Engine troubles after sitting

AlphaBarney

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Engine troubles after sitting
04/03/12 at 05:24:07

Hey all,

Just got the bike back together after stripping it down to paint the engine, frame, and tins. I'll post pics later, but now I have an engine issue. I pulled the engine to paint it after draining the oil, and now that it's back together (~3months later) I got her to start up pretty easily, but am hearing some rubbing noises like the piston is rubbing on the cylinder that are louder and more metal-on-metal sounding than I'm used to hearing. It's more pronounced at higher RPMs, and I'm worried that I am going to seize the engine if I just keep running and thinking it will eventually resolve itself when more oil is recirc'd around the engine.
After reassembly, I did a full oil and filter change with 4-stroke 10W-40 that I've been running since I got it. So it isn't an oil incompatability issue.

Has anyone ever experienced this? I am thinking I might try to spray some WD40 or liquid wrench down the sparky hole to add some lube to the piston on the upper end of the jug. Is it alright to do so?

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"Betty"-'05 S40

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bill67 Serious Thumper Offline old tired Posts: 8517 genoa city wisconsin Gender:	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #1 - 04/03/12 at 05:49:03 I would put some Sea Foam in the engine oil to clean it up.
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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #2 - 04/03/12 at 07:22:14

WD 40? No thanks, I wouldnt want that stuff in the cylinder,if I was gonna do anything like that, Id use the same oil thats in the engine now, just dont put the plug back in it,& dont put much in,, IDK what it would help, really, but as long as you dont hydro lock it & wreck the rod or starter gears, it wont hurt,
I wonder if the oil pot under the cam wasnt empty because you had it on its side & maybe you hurt the cam & lifters..Id drain the oil into a clean container, plastic/aluminum,, non magnetic,,& run a magnet thru it,
Autopsy the oil filter.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #3 - 04/03/12 at 08:21:08 did you paint it assembled or apart? what covers did you take off?
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AlphaBarney

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #4 - 04/03/12 at 08:44:13

I took both the generator cover and the clutch cover (side covers off) to clean, and reassembled before painting. Did not disassemble anything else.

Both the intake and exhaust ports were covered pretty well with paper and tape throughout the process, so I don't think anything got in there.

Note: The engine really sounds pretty normal at idle, but once you get to about 1/4 throttle and up it gets that noticeable sound. It isn't the valves because those sound about the same. I rode it around about 5-10 miles yesterday and the performance other than that was normal, if not better than before taking it all apart.

What would hurt the cam/lifters to be damaged? The bike did lay down once during disassbembly when the lift slowly lowered itself overnight...stupid me forgot to lock it in place and as the temp fell so did the bike...that put the engine on it's side, but there was no impact to the engine itself as the tins and the bars took most of that fall.

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verslagen1

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #5 - 04/03/12 at 09:10:13

I was worried you took the head cover off and got something stuck in the oil channel.

But still could be an issue. I'd take off the front valve cover and check for oil in the cam bath tub. maybe even a quick start her up/shut down... oil should be flying out of there. You can also loosen one of the head cover bolts and oil should squirt out. right rear side with a sealing washer.

The other possibility (and more likely) is the stator magnet picked up something.

You might want to take that cover off to check.

What side did it fall on?

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AlphaBarney Full Member Offline Were you born to resist, or be abused? Posts: 121 Raleigh, NC Gender:	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #6 - 04/03/12 at 10:59:36 It fell over onto its left side, but the generator cover and magnet were off already. I'll check the issues mentioned when I get home to ensure oil is making its way up to the valves. Thanks for the responses guys. I'll update again when I get that done.
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #7 - 04/03/12 at 11:24:38

Reality check here -- gen cover was off (stator goes with the cover) and the bike fell over on to the rotor magnet.

If your garage is like my garage, there was all sorts of small (drill swarf style) stuff there to get picked up by the magnet.

When you take the cover off, remove ALL the magnetically attracted debris and check for impact/rub damage to any rotor wires or windings. Check for any impact marks or rub marks on the little electronic pickup that fires the electronic spark system.

=======================================

Right side cover came off too -- lots of ways to interrupt the oiling system as it runs through the top gallery on the side cover. Did you use a stock gasket? Did you use a lot of goop on that gasket? We have seen engines killed by incorrect gasketing around that top gallery and we have seen the small oil passage that leads to the head stud gallery blocked by lumps of goop that got loose ....

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #8 - 04/03/12 at 11:24:51 OIl now is a good thing,, but oil at startup is what Im worried about,, IDK if layin on the left side would drain that pot or how long it would take to fill or if its even possible for that short time to hurt an oily cam,, I just dont know.
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AlphaBarney

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #9 - 04/03/12 at 12:47:44

Ok. Update:

1)Took off the front valve cover and started it up. After a few seconds, oil started to spray out. From what I gathered that is a good sign.
2)Unscrewed the head cover bolt and the shaft was definitely oiled up pretty good.

OF-Didn't need to replace the right side gasket, still in tact and not leaking. Generator cover was replaced with OEM gasket and no "goop" was used. I was told it was not necessary, and that side is not leaking either.

I started it up after replacing the valve cover and revved it a couple of times and held it at about 1/4. Didn't hear anything like I was last night from the top end. Should I still drain the oil and remove the left side cover and clean just in case? I thought I did a good job of keeping stuff clean, but OF is right my garage was a dusty mess, and I was worried about the stator and the magnet as soon as I saw it lying on the ground the morning after it fell. After I stopped cursing at myself of course. I should probably open it up to make sure it isn't scratching/rubbing/gouging, no?
If I do drain the oil should I use fresh oil? I'd hate to waste oil I just put in yesterday, but $10 is nothing compared to a busted engine I suppose...

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"Betty"-'05 S40

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #10 - 04/04/12 at 11:10:25 Did you inspect/clean the magnet & such before you stuck it back together? If I had any doubts about whether things inside were rubbing & wearing, I would have to drain the oil & check for metal & autopsy the filter, too.
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AlphaBarney

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #11 - 04/04/12 at 13:56:23

That is my plan for Friday. Have the day off. I'll drain the oil and take off the gen cover to inspect and clean. Hopefully that is all, but I do still hear the rubbing coming from the upper end when I use the screw driver to my ear stethoscope. It def wasn't as noticeable yesterday on the quick test ride around the block.

I'll update again once I do that. Thanks again guys for the advice. This forum was one of the reasons I felt confident enough to take it apart. I knew I had some smart guys to help me if I got into a jam.

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AlphaBarney

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #12 - 04/06/12 at 07:16:09

Ok, so I REALLY don't want to write this post, but here goes...
I'm pretty sure I have determined the root cause of my problems. After draining the oil and finding it nice black with shiny flecks all throughought, I figured there was definitely some grinding somewhere. Took off the gen cover and TADA!! Washer stuck to the inside of the magnet between the magnet and the stator...
The culprit

The Damage:

The consensus?? Are these parts still usable? Can I just clean the metal flakes out of the casings, off the magnet and stator, put everything back together, sans washer of course, and replace the oil and filter? I'm guessing the metal flakes in the oil was what was causing the rubbing in the head/piston that I was hearing. Will that work itself out in time?

Let the berating begin...this one stings a little bit on the ego.

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"Betty"-'05 S40

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justin_o_guy2

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Re: Engine troubles after sitting
Reply #13 - 04/06/12 at 07:43:57

HOw long did it run like that?

I would sure consider pulling the sides off & cleaning the crankcase out, thats a lot of metal gone off of that thing,, the good part is, the top gets its oil after it goes thru the filter, coming out of the bottom. Id think the only real danger is how much of it is in the trans. Id probably overdo it, go all paranoid & take the sides off, clean the sump, slap them on, put a fresh filter in, oil it up & run it a minute & drain it to see what comes out, Id leave that filter unless I had tons of crap, oil, run, drain,, until I stopped seeing scary amounts of garbage, & I scare easily.,

Just for giggles, Id have to open that old filter up to see how much crap it caught.

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.

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AlphaBarney Full Member Offline Were you born to resist, or be abused? Posts: 121 Raleigh, NC Gender:	Re: Engine troubles after sitting Reply #14 - 04/06/12 at 07:53:40 Ran twice. Two ~8-10mi. trips up to 60mph...Too much for my taste, but I was NOT expecting to mess up that bad... JoG, so the plan of attack would be pull both side covers, clean clutch and gen sides and casings, new filter, new oil, wash rinse and repeat...? I can do that. How do I clean out the sump?
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