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tubeless tires (Read 285 times)
turuncuoglu
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tubeless tires
03/22/12 at 12:32:50
 
I am rider with not much experience.  I like to take things slow and only ride when there is 0 chance of rain.  

Last year I had a flat on my rear tire and needless to say I was pretty scared.

Now I am aware that the due to spokes it is not possible to put tubeless tires on the wheels.  But what is involved at changing the rims on the savage.  My local Suzuki dealer quoted over $600 for a pair of rims. I understand motorcycle rims are different then car rims but still $600 seemed little too much. Is there an online store that sell these. How do I even go about finding them.

Thanks
T
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spacepirates
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #1 - 03/22/12 at 13:28:12
 
the most common thing people do here is swap out our rims for rims from an early 80's GS motorcycle (gs450, gs550, gs650).

Search for "whale" or "mag wheels" and you'll find some more information on the topic.

for "finding" rims you'd have to find out our axle diameter, rim diameter, brake rotor bolt pattern, and spacers to get the wheel/rotor aligned for the front tire. the rear tire you'd have to find something that has the same drum brake setup and the same hub for the belt. the 80's GS550L bike is the only one I'm aware of that does this.

of course, if you want to modify your bike a little further, you can swap front ends and put whatever bike's front end you like up there as long as it fits the steering stem bearings and doesn't radically change the steering geometry. for the rear, if you switch to a chain drive you have more options as well, but I've never looked into that (because I secretly hate chains for no good reason).
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verslagen1
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #2 - 03/22/12 at 13:34:30
 
Not much advice I can give to a newb... a flat's a flat.  whether it's tubeless or not.  If you want to know immediately that you're loosing air, then get a tire pressure monitor.  can be had for less then $200.
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turuncuoglu
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #3 - 03/22/12 at 13:38:45
 
so does that mean 1981 GS550 front and rear rim would fit to the bike with no modification?
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spacepirates
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #4 - 03/22/12 at 13:39:07
 
"Whale" post, sadly the pictures have expired: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1205292181/0

Yamaha XS wheel conversion topic:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1330887977/6

Alloy rims:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325705956/11#11

there are a ton of other posts about this too, just search.
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turuncuoglu
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #5 - 03/22/12 at 13:43:39
 
verslagen1 wrote on 03/22/12 at 13:34:30:
Not much advice I can give to a newb... a flat's a flat.  whether it's tubeless or not.  If you want to know immediately that you're loosing air, then get a tire pressure monitor.  can be had for less then $200.


Well there is a difference between slowly loosing air and suddenly having a flat.
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #6 - 03/22/12 at 13:48:58
 
turuncuoglu wrote on 03/22/12 at 13:43:39:
verslagen1 wrote on 03/22/12 at 13:34:30:
Not much advice I can give to a newb... a flat's a flat.  whether it's tubeless or not.  If you want to know immediately that you're loosing air, then get a tire pressure monitor.  can be had for less then $200.


Well there is a difference between slowly loosing air and suddenly having a flat.

One, will make your seat wet,.. the other is just a nuisance... Huh...
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #7 - 03/22/12 at 20:35:10
 
Of course you can put tubeless tires on a rim with spokes you just have to put a tube in it.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #8 - 03/22/12 at 22:34:38
 
A "tubeless" tire is designed so that, given the right "environment", it doesnt need a tube, using a tube in a tubeless tire is not found anywhere on the list of deadly sins.
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spacepirates
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #9 - 03/23/12 at 05:55:23
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 03/22/12 at 22:34:38:
A "tubeless" tire is designed so that, given the right "environment", it doesnt need a tube, using a tube in a tubeless tire is not found anywhere on the list of deadly sins.


I actually run with tubes in my tubeless tires on the mag wheels my XS750 has. After I got the bike I went to change the tires and they already had tubes in them. Not knowing *why* the PO had put tubes in them, i figured it best not to risk a leak due to a 34 year old rim not having a clean seat for the bead and i put the tubes back in.

People look at you kinda funny when you tell them you run tubes in your tubeless tires, but it isn't hurting anything.
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #10 - 03/23/12 at 06:40:57
 
You can run true tubeless on the stock wheels. I think it is American Wire Wheel that does the sealant process. The company receives your rims, mounts them in a fixture that will let them free spin and trowels on a silicon sealant. Once it dries the spoke heads are permanently sealed. Then the sealed rim gets balanced and shipped back to you.

Pretty common conversion for Harley rims.

You could also try Buchanans and see if they can lace a set of Honda CMX450C style hoops to your stock hub. The 450 Rebel had a dropped flange that the spokes laced to, a truly tubeless spec wire spoked wheel. BMW used to use the same style hoop, so somebody has them...

If you are going to do either of the above, you'll also be money ahead to have the rear hoop replaced with a 16" version. Lets you choose from hundreds of tires instead of a handful.
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Bubba
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #11 - 03/23/12 at 07:19:58
 
yah you can make 'em tubeless but get someone who knows what they are doing...
Quote from Woody's Wheel Works in Denver

"Q: Can you make my rims tubeless?
Woody sez: We will only make wheels tubeless if they have the safety bead in them, and that can be done with a broad range of custom wheels that can currently be built. We can enhance the chances of you not having to dicker with tightening your spokes and thus ruining your sealed rim by having it SUPERLACED; we are evaluating if it is feasible to re-invent the 950 wheels using the GS BMW series technology

What has worked before in most riding situations is being challenged by two new demands placed on the existing rim sealing technology.

First, the use of tire warmers by supermotard/road racers raises the rim temperatures far above 'normal' use, causing the sealant to soften and then separate from the rim due to centrifugal forces

Second, the lower tire pressures being run by the off-road enthusiasts. I think that's why KTM designed that lip as added insurance to keep the tire from slipping off at lower pressures, we have machined/changed the profile of the safety bead for those riders that demanded easier tire changing capabilities.

I can write several pages on the many factors that are involved in making rims tubeless. There are so many - the obvious like correct rim selection and IMMACULATELY prepping/cleaning the rim and nipples are easy, it's the little stuff, ie. spoke and nipple selection. ss spokes and ss nipples? Wow great!!...not so fast...if you don't use the special anti-seize lubricant provided, you can't tighten them adequately and they gall and seize on you, use it and try to go tubeless and the lubricant slowly works its way between rim and sealant compromising the seal...and on and on

In creating solutions we have to constantly balance our objectives within the parameters we can live with, and they can be as varied as how much am I willing to pay for this, will this set me up for a lawsuit in litiguous america, am I sacrificing safety for that added edge in competition... etc"
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ghryx
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #12 - 03/01/19 at 08:31:26
 
I've got a similar question on this - I'm converting my Savage to a sort of cafe/scrambler kinda thing. I want to put Shinko 705s on it, but for the life of me I can't find the 110/80/19 in the tubed variety.  
I read somewhere that for running a tubeless tire on a 'tubed' rim, the rim itself has to be a of a certain cross-section for the tubeless tire to fit, but now I can't re-find that article.
Any thoughts?
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #13 - 03/01/19 at 10:20:43
 
A 110/80 tire can fit on a 2.15 wide rim. There is a tire fitment chart in both the Cafe’ and New Tire threads- I am on my phone and can’t seem to attach a link.
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Re: tubeless tires
Reply #14 - 03/01/19 at 11:23:19
 
Be careful early GS models had cast wheels ,but they weren't tubeless.
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