Retread wrote on 03/01/12 at 16:35:44:

Klotz wasn't on there because the chart only goes to 4.8,They didn't have big enough paper for it.

  That graph came off an Amsoil site.. I have no doubt the Rotteli is a good oil, would I use it? No, because I have seen and driven heavy duty diesel engines on a steady diet of Rotteli.. We are talking about what is best for a flat tappet engine, not what is cheaper..

TSB: MO-2007-08-08
Date: 8/8/07
Revision 2: 5/2/11
Product Description: AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils
Subject: Flat Tappet and Camshaft Lobe Lubrication
Technical Service Bulletin
OBJECTIVE:
Provide facts outlining lubrication requirements of fl at tappet
camshaft engines and the importance of higher levels
of zinc and phosphorus.
ISSUES:
Flat tappet camshafts undergo extreme pressure and
loads, thus requiring an engine oil that is fortifi ed with antiwear
additives to provide premium protection. The severity
of higher spring pressure in racing engines also creates
the need for additional wear protection.
To preserve catalytic converter life, phosphorus levels in
motor oil have been reduced. Concerns have risen that
oils containing lower levels of zinc/phosphorus could provide
insuffi cient protection in high-pressure areas of fl at
tappets and camshaft lobes found in many older and high
performance engines.
TECHNICAL DISCUSSION:
The most commonly used anti-wear additive in motor oils
is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). ZDDP contains
both zinc and phosphorus components working together
to provide anti-wear protection, and is most important
during cam “break-in” procedures. Proper break-in lubes
should be used during the break-in phase for all new or
rebuilt engines with fl at tappets. These lubricants provide
the extra protection required to reduce wear at the point of
contact during break-in and help the fl at tappet face properly
mate with the cam lobe. Once the break-in phase is
completed, AMSOIL motor oils, which are formulated with
high levels of zinc and phosphorus, will provide premium
protection to fl at tappet cams.
The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International
Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC) have
mandated the reduction of phosphorus to extend catalytic
converter life. However, reducing the level of ZDDP can
compromise protection to engine components, most notably
in fl at tappet camshafts. Current API SN and ILSAC
GF-5 specifi cations for gasoline engines have maximum
Submitted By: DP Reviewed By: DP Approved By: AA Approval Date: 5/2/11
Distribution: Internal All X
Page 1 of 2
AMSOIL INC., 925 Tower Ave., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2011
and minimum phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and 600 ppm,
respectively, for SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30,
SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 motor oils.
All engines, especially high-performance modifi ed engines,
benefi t from oils with superior fi lm strength and antiwear
properties. The fl at tappet/camshaft lobe interface is
the one area in an engine that has extreme contact load.
Since this load increases signifi cantly when non-stock,
high-pressure valve springs are employed, the use of
properly formulated motor oils is extremely important to
reduce wear and extend fl at tappet/camshaft life.
RECOMMENDATION:
AMSOIL recommends motor oils containing high levels of
zinc/phosphorus for superior protection. The following tables
list many of the AMSOIL synthetic motor oils that are
formulated with high levels of anti-wear additives:
Primary
Recommendations
Phosphorus
Level (ppm)
Zinc Level
(ppm)
Z-ROD™ 10W-30 Synthetic
Motor Oil (ZRT) 1320 1440
Z-ROD™ 20W-50 Synthetic
Motor Oil (ZRF) 1320 1440
Secondary
Recommendations
Phosphorus
Level (ppm)
Zinc Level
(ppm)
Premium Protection 10W-40
Synthetic Motor Oil (AMO) 1265 1378
Premium Protection 20W-50
Synthetic Motor Oil (ARO) 1266 1379
Series 3000 5W-30
Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel
Oil (HDD)
1266 1379
15W-40 Synthetic Heavy
Duty Diesel and Marine
Motor Oil (AME)
1267 1377
Submitted By: DP Reviewed By: DP Approved By: AA Approval Date: 5/2/11
Distribution: Internal All X
Page 2 of 2
AMSOIL INC., 925 Tower Ave., Superior, WI 54880 (715) 392-7101 © Copyright 2011

Ăôk

 
Retread,  Amisol posts information that shows they outspec everyone on everything.  I've visited their site before, so I have no shock and awe at seeing their claims.  Furthermore, I have seen new oil VOA analysis at Bobistheoilguy that shows that Amisol's claims are mostly real, that the 1265 and 1378 numbers are in the oil as purchased.   So I even believe the Amisol claims.

Here's the rub, for a few hundred extra PPM of ZDDP (beyond what diesel oils carry by specification) Amisol charges 4 times as much for the dino oils and over 2 times as much for the full synthetics.   That is highway robbery for what you are getting.

Remember -- I can EQUAL OR EXCEED the specs that Amisol offers by adding a single NyQuil cap full of Redline ZDDP booster to an oil change of Rotella T6, but I have to question the need to keep on doing that after the cam is settled in for a whole year.   The cost of the cap full is less than $3 so my whole oil change costs less than a shipped and delivered price of a single quart of Amisol.

But still, our newbie in this thread was willing to pay $15 a quart for his Amisol oil change because he loves his wife and she gets the very best.

So, based on the newbie's choice AMISOL WON THIS OIL WAR and we all shouted and celebrated with shooting our guns up into the air.    

That doesn't mean we will all run out and start using Amisol .....

Remember, we have head to head tested Amisol in our Savage engine and Verslagen and his temperature sensor couldn't tell the difference between it and Rotella T6.   In a Savage, they perform equivalent to each other, with no advantage either way.

Given a functional equivalent situation, why would you pay over 2x price for Amisol?

Nobody on this list rips at their Savage engine more than the Dragon crew does -- Rotella dino survives just fine on those runs.   T6 may even be a bit of overkill in a Savage engine (but I can afford it) so where does that leave the "need" to pay 2-4x the price for Amisol?

O'fella... you keep sellin' Rotella and the price keeps going up.
Let the bills of the world do what they do... buy klotz, amsoil... whatever.  Just leave the rotsyn to the dragon crew.

wanta amsoil sticker fer yer bike?

Boule’tard wrote on 03/02/12 at 11:27:32:



Boule, if you are running a stock cam you don't need the booster at all as you are only a couple of hundred ppm off from Amisol from the get go and you don't really need the excess anyway in a stockish engine.  

If you jest want to use it on top of T6 to equal Amisol, just use a Pepto Bismol or Nyquil plastic cup full (that is all you need as you are only bumping up a little bit).   I used a full shot glass of the stuff to get up to the 2200 ppm break in oil range, which is more than folks use normally for anything.

ZDDP doesn't cause clutch slippage at any rational amounts ever used.  ZDDP can be over done, it can cause oil acidification if used above 2400 ppm levels.   Furthermore, it has decreasing additional benefits beyond 2400 ppm (more simply circulates endlessly as all exposed metal is already fully coated to the point it simply won't accept any more).

Lastly, huge ZDDP levels never stay around long enough in a motorcycle engine to get used up over time -- we change out at about 5,000 - 8,000 miles even on a yearly oil change basis.

  Remember, even Retread says truckers got 10,000 miles out of standard white jug dino Rotella T back in the day when he was driving.

Verslagen, I gots some purty Redline stickers but I won't ever use them -- the granny sickle flies low under the radar until it is time to pass 'em and grin at them.   The whole fat old man on the granny sickle requires worn paint, bad clearcoat, the whole 10 year old neglected bike look.

Makes a Ducati rider look right sick when he comes in behind you and gets off his bike at the Dragon Lodge and stops and studies the bike.   "I got beat by this ???"

 
Yes it is interesting.   I was looking at Walmart Supertech 5w30 synthetic on Bobistheoilguy  (wife has a new Nissan Cube that she jest loves) and they are using this calcium carbonate technology.  
Calcium carbonate ---- Bromo selzer?   Tums?

        Tum de tum tums ...  

I think it is relatively new and must prove out over time that it protects engines over the entire life span, but it is available now and it meets catalytic converter requirements in roller tappet car engines.

Will it take over the role of ZDDP in all roller tappet modern car engines -- mebbe, I dunno.   Seems to be headed that way.

Will it take over the antique plain tappet role in Savages, old Corvettes, VWs, Porches, Corvairs, etc --- so far it has not even made a dent.

bill67 wrote on 03/02/12 at 13:00:34:


http://www.klotzwarehouse.com/printable.php?show_aux_page=6

Group one oil:
These are the old high paraffin base oils. They are not used for modern engine oils anymore but can still be found in those little bottles of all-purpose household oil you buy at the hardware store for stuff like oiling door hinges.



Sorry I couldn't help it.. too funny..    will resist better next time..  

 
Bill is kinda sorta right after a fashion, in as much as he ever is.

Rotella uses a base oil that is made from a homogeneous oil byproduct called slack wax that is dual processed into a uniform single molecule base oil that is the same oil that is used by Lamborghini as the base oil for their car oil.   It sorta fits into class III and is sometimes called class IV depending on who is doing the picking, although it has some abuse resistant characteristics that throw it more towards the "unique chemical makeup" class in some folks eyes.   The base oil works really well holding its viscosity and resisting shear, which is one of the strong points of T6.

So, Bill can inappropriately razz us that he thinks it is made from some really lazy toilet ring wax (he can remember that, I think)

source is:    http://205.243.146.146/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2169022

quote is:

Rotella T6 is based on Shell's XHVI base oil. Its a Group III derived by processing slack wax and performs as well as, better in some respects, than a Group IV. It is indeed sometimes called "group III+" base stock.