No, but $15 a quart Amisol is what the newbie picked.  It was the only oil he had confidence in that met the conflicting requirements of the Savage engine to his satisfaction.   And with its published specs -- it is arguably the best oil out there (just very expensive).

You are right about getting men to change their minds -- we tend to be set in our ways and stubborn.

Retread, you understood the opposing points and shrugged some of them off.  Which is fine, you made valid points right back and you moved your position when something convinced you and it was a good discussion that was worth having.  

Oil is important to our semi-antique motorcycle engine, which is why we go through oil wars several times a year --- we keep getting new people and they will all watch & read the big oil war fuss because it is fun
(and they soak up some education along the way).

I am not sure Feelinjunky ever really connected that car oils have changed to suit 2010-12 cars and the current crop of car oils simply don't fit our old bike engine any more.   He still feels he can put 2 quarts of anything in there and be just fine long term.   I hope he is.

Anyhow, our newbie got his oil question answered and he picked a good one (arguably the best one out there).

Men do love an oil war, sometimes we even learn a little bit out of them.

It's like I woke up on Groundhog day with the strangest sense of deja-Vu.... Haven't I read all this somewhere before? Now let me think... where's my glass of Kool-Aid?

I guess that Red Line breakin additive really solves a lot of  issues associated with our scoots. A good Jaso MA oil coupled with a shot of ZDDP should be a good elixir for what ails ye bike. Personally, I'll keep using Rotella T6, as long as I can find it.

You guys don't want to get all hung up over that ZDDP booster, the only reason I used it temporarily was to make sure a $250 hot cam grind was happy for the first 500 miles as per Web Cam's recommendation to the distributor (Lancer).  To be honest, they recommended a dino racing oil but it was easy to back the ZDDP back out by checking the amounts in the recommended oil.

For a stock Savage motor Rotella T has plenty (1,200 ppm) of ZDDP.

And Bill, diesels can rev just fine -- ask any BMW or Audi or VW diesel engine owner.  

But it is interesting that you put the same RPM number out there that the Savage begins to top out at .... were you doing it intentionally jest to make Rotella look better?

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 03/01/12 at 12:53:46:

OF your s40 tops out at 4000 rpm,Thats good I wouldn't want to go over 4100-4200 rpm on diesel oil.

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 03/01/12 at 09:52:45:


NNNOOOOOO!!! That wern't me!! I've read through too many of these for too many years to ever do that...
Have FUN Y'all!!  

 
Retread has just broken one of the main rules of oil warfare -- always state your source, give the link to get to it and always explain your graph.

Cp, (since apparently I get to define it) is the Crap Profile index number and if I wuz a guessin' man I would say this is some sort of Amisol test data sheet showing mainly who Amisol considers to be their competitors (in decreasing order of threat level of course).

Now once Retread gives us the link to the real data and we can go check it out, then he will get a real response.

You know, Bill did this to us once -- turns out the information he quoted referred to a 1984 Moto Guzzi but it sure sounded good when he plopped it down the first time.




------  and now that I think about it, you could buy a whole big white gallon jug of Rotella Triple Protection 15w40 on sale for what just one quart of Amisol costs.  

And once Retread explains his graph and where it lives and all, we shall see how it stacks up against that white gallon jug as far as performance and value goes.

While we wait for Retread to fix his stuff, here is an additional informational nugget which is a section clipped from a long article in Dirt Rider Magazine.

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=146867

The entire article is worth reading as the guy is trying to make a point about JASO being a wet clutch test & gearbox test and that's all -- it doesn't get into valve train wear per se or any other "bike specific" wear item (such as our cam chain issues).  

He kinda sorta slams some of the over-expensive bike oils in the process, but you gotta read the whole thing as the whole article has a pretty good overall balance to it.


When we consider use of engine oil in a racing four stroke dirt bike, we must realize that there are certain factors that must be accounted for. First and foremost is the fact that oil that is used in both the engine and clutch assembly will see far more contamination than any other sort of engine. This contamination that is primarily created by the clutch materials is far more than the detergent/dispersant qualities of any oil can withstand for extended periods. There is simply too much contamination for the oil to handle. And as a result, we must consider changing out the oil on a frequent basis. And changing the oil frequently in a dirt bike can get expensive, especially if you are using high priced oil.

But what about the oils used in diesel engines? These oils are normally the best at providing contamination control. A diesel engine produces lots of carbon and contamination, and the oils used in them have very high levels of detergents and dispersants to fight wear and degradation caused by contamination. These types of oils also typically contain high levels of additives to help protect the metals in the severe-service, high-torque diesel engine.
There really is no such thing as “diesel engine oil”, but rather oils that are formulated for use in a severe service engine that are called “Universal” or “Heavy Duty” engine oils. These oils can carry an additional service category certification for such extreme duties.
The latest service category for heavy duty engine oil applications is the ILSAC (International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee) is the GF4 certification.

Let's compare the two standards, SAE SM standard first, then the GF4 requirements for the diesel heavy duty oils.

14 tests are called for by this standard




Now let’s take a look at what is required of GF4 certified oil, a much more lengthy and rigorous set of requirements.

over 20 tests are called for by this standard




It should be clear to you from the above certification requirements that the GF4 standards are far more stringent than that of either SM or JASO certifications. Heavy duty engine oils are just that…heavy duty. And they are formulated in a way that will serve the needs of four stroke dirt bike engine just fine. This is why we see so much evidence of riders having great luck with the heavy duty engine oils such as Shell Rotella T and Mobil Delvac. Not to mention that the prices of these HDEO’s are very reasonable


.... and the sharp eyed amongst you may have noticed the diesel standard includes measuring real things like stuck rings, piston wear, ring end gap, bearing wear, cam & tappet wear and valve train wear and other real things that the bike oil standards DON'T even mention or address at all.  

And they have to protect at this level for a lot more miles than anyone ever dreams of running a bike oil between changes.